Recent correspondence in REM has provoked some interest and discussion so I thought I would offer readers and online posters some information on what’s actually going on in organized real estate. Too often we see people offering opinions on issues they are not current with or don’t have the latest information and that often creates confusion, frustration and fear. Hopefully my comments will clear up a few misconceptions.

First and foremost, let me say that members of our industry are engaged in a unique exercise to ensure Realtors continue to be the cornerstone of property buying and selling well into the future. Indeed, this Futures Strategic Planning process has been underway for over a year, with Realtors giving input and feedback at CREA’s 2011 AGM, over a dozen cross-country sessions last summer, CREA’s 2011 Fall SGM and again this past March at the 2012 AGM.  Key to the success to date of the futures plan has been member participation, and it’s been unprecedented for our industry. In addition to the meetings I mentioned above, Realtors have been engaged through the following; a dedicated intranet site; a virtual discussion on a futures forum site; several articles in News2Me, CREA’s newsletter received by over 85,000 Realtors. And we’re not stopping there.

In the coming weeks short videos will be sent to all members, followed by a few quick multiple choice questions that will provide feedback to your leadership. Realtors who want to have further input will be given the opportunity to go in depth and offer opinions on an additional set of questions. To participate, all you have to do is open the relevant email on your smartphone or desktop and follow a few prompts.

Given the passionate views about the industry expressed here and elsewhere, I look forward to members’ participation in these forums. It’s your chance to shape the future of our business.

Our business has a great track record. We have the most popular consumer real estate site in Canada by a huge margin, over five million visits last month. Over two million Canadians have used the Home Buyers Plan to withdraw money from their RRSP to buy a home. This program was invented by Realtors, made permanent by Realtors and increased in the 2009 budget by Realtors.

I look forward to working with all of you to grow our business and continue to help Canadians with the biggest financial decision of their lives, buying and selling property. 

Wayne Moen

President, CREA


  1. To:

    Wayne Moen


    Canadian Real Estate Association

    Dear Mr. Moen,

    With all due respect sir, a number of paying members of your organization, after having read your article herein dated May 29, 2012, entitled…

    "CREA President responds to REM reader comments"…

    have been awaiting answers herein online to questions posed in response to your May 29 statements.

    I can understand why you would not reply to my questions, seeing as I am no longer a practicing member of CREA, and therefore I am of no political or financial consequence to CREA. But I am a consumer nevertheless.

    What is really surprising to me is your heretofore seemingly obvious decision to ignore your own paying members' questions, with more than one member asking for the answers to my questions as well. Call me naive, maybe, but I expected more of the leader of a national organization concerning said leader's interest in what some (many?) of his paying subordinates are thinking and in what they would like to know vis a vis certain in-house procedural manouvers regarding the implementation of the Futures project AKA "Map To The Future".

    Why the silence?

    Your lack of response so far indicates (to me at least) that an attitude of superiority on the part of CREA exists when it boils down to having to, damn!, explain things to the common folk who pay your salaries, your expenses, your office lease hold costs, your public advertising campaigns, your junkets to remote meeting venues with their attendant perqs, your research efforts to determine what seems to be most important to your in-house bureaucrats' mindsets, being, what consumers want vs what your paying members want for their monies paid on behalf of same etc., etc.

    We/I want to know how it is that you communally have decided to treat your paying constituency as second-class citizens for the betterment of your chosen first-class citizenry, being those who pay nothing into your coffers.

    How do you square deviating from your own stated modus operendi…

    "Operation:…the association at the federal level represents members' interests in all aspects of the real estate industry…" p. 23 of your own publication vis a vis the 2011 AGM…

    with your apparent concern first and foremost for consumers' interests?

    Don't you think it proper that Realtors, on an individual basis, being the folks who actually deal with consumers, be responsible for consumers' interests on a day-by-day basis? They are the folks who will be ultimately responsible for the successes or failures of their interactions with consumers…not you folks.

    Wayne; you stated within your prelude to the 2011 AGM the following:

    "I challenge you to…approve a plan…to meet consumers' expectations…"

    Very undemocratic language aimed at securing the votes needed from a very small number of "approved voting delegates" for an already in-house decided plan of action by CREA and its "approved" members. But, what about Realtors' expectations, those folks who pay your way? What about 'their' concerns, and 'their' dollars (not yours, for you are simply their money managers) being spent on seemingly undemocratically-railroaded-into-place theoretical ideas designed to benefit everyone but the paying clients. You have lost sight of your mandate; you have become the wannabe United Nations of: Realtors, Government agencies and consumers. You cannot please everyone/anyone when you stretch your mandate beyond the purview of its original intent…to serve your paying members' interests…period. Let the others have their own lobby groups serve their own interests. That is democracy at work.

    You ultimately end up pleasing no one, but yourselves.

    Maybe that is your true in-house goal after all.

    I know that you will read this.

    By the way, how does one become an "approved voting delegate"?

    Please respond, to these and your members' previous questions.


    Brian Martindale

  2. I am pleased to see that finally there is a semblance of some balanced thumbs-up/thumbs-down responses to my posts of June 5th (5-3), June 2nd (9-8), June 2nd again (10-8) respectively.

    It seems that the only way to get some kind of engagement from folks with alternate views vs mine, and many others posting herein, is to lodge counter- commentary with a somewhat insulting tone to their content. Whatever it takes I guess.

    But what happened to their negative input on my May 29th post (51-0)?

    I expected much more in the way of a spirited debate vis a vis the actual/perceived CREA out-of-touch issue vs personality assasination by the likes of Alberta Legal, the "vis a vis" hating one-hit-wonder-kind who seems to have been easily tamed by my well-aimed retorts in his/her direction.

    Maybe he/she just can't be bothered.

    Maybe this follow-up insult will generate a reasoned response from the opposing side; insults seem to be the only thing that rock their world.

    Alberta Legal:

    Please accept my apology for my earlier remarks and name-calling.

    I admit that I responded in haste to your accusations. I have never been one to retreat in the face of attacks, be they physical or verbal in nature. I always counter-attack, for better or worse it seems.

    Why don't you respond and we can start over.



  3. A couple of questions:
    Does anyone know what the president of CREA is paid a year?
    Are the board members paid?
    Are the CREA audited financials available online for every member to see?

    As a Non-Profit organization, is CREA required to spend all it collects no matter what? (ie if they collect an extra $1 million do they return that to members or do they simply hire more staff or add additonal overhead to eliminate that surplus).

    Special FEE increases in previous years came for Legal Defense Funds, Technology Funds and the like. Has an accounting of the funds every been supplied and posted online for all CREA members to see?

    Can anyone supply these answers?

    • CREA Pres earns low 6 figures is my understanding. Probably between 110k-140k. It is a fulltime job though and a large organization so that would seem about right imho. As for the other questions I have no idea :)

    • Hi Eyes:

      The special levies for Legal Defense Funds have obviously been squandered.

      The funds, if they continue to exist, should be transferred over into a new fund…

      The Legal Offense Fund.

      Your questions speak directly to CREA's Constitution/Articles of Incorporation and Mission Statement etc.

      All NPO's have to divest themselves of the previous year's excess funds, somehow, in order to justify the next year's budget requirements, something like government departments, which operate in direct contrast to efficiency-of-scale self-supporting profit-seeking enterprises.

      Now you know what your hard-earned tax dollars are fuelling…a never ending thirst for YOUR MONEY!

      It's called a runaway Gravy Train guided by social engineering group-think bureaucrats who self-servingly accept your demanded dues to promote what "they" think should be implemented in "their" communal, institutional best interests, with you all serving as the roots for the ever-expanding weeds in the overrun former Garden of Eden, metaphorically speaking, real estate wise.

      Time to wise up folks!


    • Thank you for the CREA financials website info. Merv.

      Carolyne, PED, Ross, Allan, or anyone else who is interested in the content…would you please post the relevant details herein? i cannot access due to my current non-member status.



  4. Why would Wayne get into commentary with guys like Brain Martindale or Ross K who continually regurgitate the same old same old. There's simply no winning with you guys and Brian please stop with the vis a vis…your attempts to come across as the smartest guy in the chat room only display your level of narcissism. This forum sounds more like a chat room for realtors feeling sorry for themselves, wake up boys now you have to actually get up, go to work and truly compete for your business.

    Here's my advice for all of you who disrespect your professional organization so much and see it as having no value…leave! Go on your own, start your own version of mls, charge your high fees and be happy. Maybe then you will realize that you have few, if any, willing to follow because the realtors that I talk to say they are doing better than ever before and like the changes that are going on. Its an opportunity to separate the real professionals from those who just loosely throw the term around.

    Many will say I'm sad for not identifying myself, but thats what makes these forums great! … it allows Canadians to speak thier mind and remain anonymus.

    • Well well well…finally!…a real live person who does not agree with my position(s?) weighs in against me in public with his/her emotionally driven drivel vis a vis vis a vis his/her vis a vis-hating verbal canon (squirt-gun?) ignited via a vis a vis incediary, and he/she squirting vis a vis targeted wet limpy missives like those emanating from a low water pressure garden hose held in the hand of an anonymous, masked wanabe self-proclaimed legal expert vis a vis his vis a vis hating on-line monker "Alberta Legal" from the sidelines of the safety of his/her highly elevated self perception of one's own intellect.

      Intellect is not what is all about dumbell; it's about ideas stupid!

      I am a former Realtor (Century 21 United Realty Inc., Peterborough, Ontario, Canada, for the record) who retired last December (now 65), but unlike most who are still operating, I actually cared about, and still do care about, what is going on, beside how many deals I had/may have cooking currently.

      You are not sad for not identifying yourself…you are a coward!

      I have just spoken my mind vis a vis your vis a vis hating rant vis a vis your emotional outburst vis a vis your inability to stand and be counted vis a vis your total lack of guts. That's vis a vis all from a non normally name calling kinda guy, but you truly deserve it dick-head.

      Indidentally, the definition of a narcicist is:

      Narcicism: Self-love. (Webster's New World Dictionary)

      Narcissus: Greek Myth. A youth who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool and was changed into narcissus. (Websters)

      What the hell does your attempted intellectual analogy have to do with looks, idiot? I'm not the smartest person anywhere, let alone within the sphere of REM Online, but I sure as hell have a lot of experience under my belt upon which I draw for amunition for my vis a vis resplendant rants, as you would define them.

      Furthermore, I put my name to them, for better or worse. This in and of itself marks me as a more honest to myself, and others, kinda person than you, whoever the hell you are.

      I hope you are a lawyer, and if you are, as you so correctly stated, "…many will say I'm (you are) sad…"

      I'm not sad vis a vis my vis a vis's, nor about putting it all out there under my real name, pseudonym jockey.

      What also makes this forum great is getting under the skin of guys/gals like you…you make great cannon fodder, er, squirt-gun melt-downs.

      This is all so much fun, but just too easy.

      Brian Martindale,
      Lakefield, Ontario

      (Ontario non-legal, intellectually-bankrupt-lawyer basher)

    • Footnote to my reply to Alberta Legal's post dated June 2, 2012, 1:02 A.M.:

      I 'do' want to see a new national real estate practitoner-friendly organization formed, thus the need to leave CREA behind.

      If there are so many satisfied-with-CREA Realtors out there, why are they not championing CREA's cause herein?

      There is 'winning' with 'us guys', it's called a revolution for the betterment of the paying disenfranchised real estate constituency that defines being a successful Realtor as one who, among other things, believes one is working under the auspices of a successful organization that advocates for THEIR concerns, and not for every one elses to the detriment of THEIRS. Success as a Realtor does not necessarily mean making lots of money "vis a vis" the status quo umbrella organization's dictates that might work for a few well established practitoners. There is a reason why there is such a high turnover rate in this business, and it is maintained by 'status quo' afficionados who are in control of the 'come-by-chance' yearly leaders at CREA.

      You are a worn out staus quo supporter. So is a jock strap.

      As for my comment that you are a pseudonym jockey, there are others herein on-line who as well do not divulge their true identities. But before you attack Ross K, Carolyne L, PED et al, let me say that the three mentioned have divulged their identities to me. They have formidable knowledge banks at their behest, much deeper than mine, and their comments on the failings of CREA past and present are fact-driven and accurate. I, on the other hand, being less knowledgeable than they, neverthless know enough to go at it here on-line publicly in defense of possibly the majority of Realtors' disenchantment with CREA across Canada.

      The best offense is a good offense, one designed to draw out folks like yourself, to let them reveal their reasons for wanting to keep the status quo alive. My job is to kill it with offense. So if I give offense to some 'regarding' my ideas…so be it. I don't write these commentaries to win over every last Realtor across Canada, but just enough to win the war against CREA's continuing anti in-the-trenches-every-day-not-getting-rich-quickly-Realtors who ARE NOT satisfied with CREA's way of doing business. For them I add my voice, narcissistic as it may seem to you, being a possible point man/woman for CREA.

      Naww…surely they would use someone who at least sounds professional.

      Note: The longer CREA/Wayne take to reply to 'our' questions, the more it appears that they are too busy to deal with us underlings, or, that they are preparing strategic answers vs truthful answers.

      Either way, the optics are not good.


    • Those that take shots at others though anonymity have no opinion worth regarding. It is one thing to have another point of view and stand by it. While quite another to belittle people who have a different view while hiding.

    • Hey Chad, I agree and I suspect from your previous posts you have no ulterior motive with this comment….but unless your name is like mine where it reads as it is, you need to take proactive action when on sites that are indexed. REM is a great site and clearly developed by experts, as such, indexing is part of their propagation strategy (and it should be).

      So, really a simple solution is to write your last name backwards so it cannot be indexed to you on google. As an independent business person anything that takes Google search results from your own business website, really cannot be afforded. Whether it's Zoocasa, Active Rain or Homezilla, I can't let them use my personal brand unless my business is protected now and tomorrow from them. (This happens to be another concern for CREA members as in the last 6 months CREA has totally reversed it's indexing practices that were in existence since 1998)

      Others people like members of boards and associations should use a pen name, to allow them the freedom to post as an individual without the confines/risks that their volunteer efforts create for them.

      Wayne Moen, simply cannot address the questions posted here without a lawyer reviewing his post, having the board approve his responses to be CB compliant and ensuring he has done his due diligence.

      For that reason I think all CREA members need to hear a simple answer like, "no comment", "unfortunately we are prevented from answering that question" or "this is really a question only your brokerage can answer", coming from CREA.

  5. Could someone at CREA please explain why $20 Million Dollars a year "evaporates into thin air" with very little positive things for Realtors in general. The President and directors we are told are all "volunteers".

    Our Provincial governments licence and regulate all Realtors, I am "absolutely certain" we do not need CREA to keep Realtors in line. Our Provincial Real Estate Commissions are already doing that, so why the duplication. We have the technology for "one stop" Super Association Office's in each Province to serve the public and our members and could be put in place in very short order. The extra layer of beaurocracy at $20 million dollars a year is no longer required in todays warp speed technology disemination through the internet.

    I can tell you one thing, with a Super Association Office in each Province you can rest assured that Fintrac and the Competition Bureau would be put in their place, and in a very short period of time. CREA abandoned their members on both these critical issues, and are further distancing themselves from Realtors as they try to move forward with changes that the Realtors and Brokers are not interested in participating in.

  6. To the attention of Wayne Moen, president of CREA, first and foremost, as well as to REM readers everywhere:

    Where are the answers to my very pertinent questions vis a vis your (CREA's/Wayne's) article, entitled: "CREA president responds to REM reader comments", submitted herein on May 29th last at 10:16 A.M.?

    It has been over three days since I asked CREA President Wayne Moen three questions herein on-line. They are not difficult questions to answer, in my opinion. No answers have been forthcoming as of the submission of this commentary. Why?

    There can only be ten non-answer scenarios. They are as follows:

    One: CREA/Wayne has/have not read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, and thus are unaware of my and others' questions.

    Two: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but have strategically chosen not to respond, just to measure how long this story will have legs before it hopefully dies a natural death

    Three: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but don't quite yet know how to respond in a manner designed not to encourage more questions based upon CREA's/Wayne's so far non-existant published answers.

    Four: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but have sluffed me off because I am currently a loudmouth non-member of organized real estate, and thus of no account in the greater scheme of things. But what about Ross K's and other members' of CREA questions posted herein?

    Five: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but have been advised by CREA lawyers not to respond to my direct questions, as well as to Ross K's, and others, due to the potential for entrapping CREA/Wayne in a debate which they just might lose…on-line…in public.

    Six: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but do not know the answer to at least one of the questions submitted, by me as well as by Ross K and others.

    Seven: CREA/Wayne has /have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but simply don't care a fig what I/we think about the content within CREA's/his article.

    Eight: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but were totally unprepared for the overwhelming negative reaction to said article's content herein, and are strategically risking some already given negative feedback by not responding in hopes of avoiding even greater negative feedback from any answers that 'they' might have come up with.

    Nine: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its/his article appeared herein, but simply don't have time to respond.

    Ten: CREA/Wayne has/have read REM on-line since its'his article appeared herein, but the truthful answers to the questions posed, if submitted herein on-line, would prove that CREA's/Wayne's claims within said article would be shown to amount to nothing more than a CREA- specific platitudinal polemic designed to further pull the wool over 85,000, more or less, pairs of industry related/dependant eyes across Canada.

    Take your pick, but none of the above scenarios reflects well on CREA and its new president…in my superflous opinion of course.

    Times a tickin' CREA/Wayne.

    But respectfully…Where's the beef?


    Brian Martindale

  7. I have been in this business for 25 years. Really when you look at it not much has changed. Most people in the public agree that they need a professional to guide them through the buying and selling process. A smaller percentage of the public wants to do a portion of it themselves and save some money. That is the same as it has been for many decades. The single most substantial change affecting our business in the last 25 years is the internet. Essentially all the internet did was dramatically change the access to information for the consumer. It actually allowed Realtors to better deal with larger numbers of clients. It was a good change for us. As an industry we are going through a change of product. Our product has changed from information to services and expertise. We will continue to get used to that change of product in the years to come. However, that ubiquitous access to information has rendered associations like CREA and our boards less useful to our industry. Our board in the Okanagan Valley used to be twice the size as it is now because they no longer input MLS information; we the brokerages and Realtors do. Now we are talking about provincial or National MLS systems which further diminishes the use of these associations. I personally believe that this is the reason that CREA is changing the way they look at their business. They are saying that we the Realtors are no longer their customer and moving to a "customer centric" model. I for one am not happy with this shift. CREA should not be dealing with the customers or telling us how to handle our data. It must be clarified who owns the customer and therefore who owns the data…. the Realtors do. After all they go out and find the customers and they go out and get the data. It must belong to them. CREA is trying to get into the Real Estate business and get out of the Realtor business. Until this point their job has been to serve us. I think it is a mistake to discuss getting rid of CREA or the boards. We still need them. Someone has to keep us all ethical and legal. However, I think a message should be sent to CREA that Realtors are their customers not the buyers and sellers. Realtors should have the ability to market to their customers as they see fit. CREA is trying to level the playing field and create a universal standard for how the consumers are marketed to. This is not much different than limiting competition in fees and we all know what a bee's nest that is. Most of the points on CREA's "Map to the Future" document have to do with CREA stepping out of their role of serving Realtors and stepping into a new role of serving the buyers and sellers. Their usefulness has diminished and therefore they are looking for new roles. I think that we as Realtors need to send a message loud and clear that they need to reduce their size and their fees to us rather than look at new Roles out side their mandate. Let the brokerages and the Realtors, the people in the trenches, that know the customer's needs decide how they will satisfy those needs.
    Bill Hubbard

    • WOW!

      "CREA is trying to level the playing field and create a universal standard for how the consumers are marketed to."

      Very insightful and worth serious consideration Bill.

  8. I refer the commenters to my letter to the editor: "REALTORS MUST LET CREA GO". It is in the June issue hard copy and online now with tremendous support and comments. We need to change our "business model as soon as possible" and the best way to achieve that in short order is to build our "Super Association Office's" one stop service for the public and our members in each respective Province. We already have the technology to do it. It will bring a new "cohesivness" to all Realtors that has been sadly lacking under the direction and stewardship of CREA.

  9. Real Estate is possibly the most bureaucratic private sector in Canada. There are the brokerages, regional boards, and CREA, each with their own rules and regulations. Each trying to maintain as much control as possible. It's exhausting.

    A lot has changed in the last decade. What CREA might have been doing to support Realtors online seems to have stopped. Even though the Realtor owns the listing they are not able to use that information for other online applications. Here's a challenge for a typical Realtor using the web today, after creating an independent website to market themselves they have to repost the listing's information and photos, even though the data is already online with CREA. The same Realtor then uses an online tool to create a 360 virtual tour. Again they must re-upload the listing's information. Finally, they decide to use another tool to enable SMS and QR codes. Once again they are required to re-upload the listing.

    Realtors' time is being robbed by CREA. Being a programmer I propose a simple solution. CREA gives each Realtor a private key to an API. The key only gives Realtors access to their own listings. Much like the way Google Analytics' API works. This will allow Realtors access to the information they own, without concern that all the information hosted by CREA will be accessible. In other words will be safe.

    A lot of really cool tools are already developed for Realtors, but the amount of time needed to implement them is inefficient when the information is already in a database online. I know CREA is already working on ideas and solutions for large scale APIs to provide data to other listing sites etc. This is not what I am talking about, I am talking about a really simple API that will give Realtors access to the information that they already rightfully own.

    If CREA wants to help Realtors they would do this (and they wouldn't charge Realtors for it).

    • Jonathan, This is already included in just released April 30th revision for the DDF.

      Please refer to DDF Policy and Rules 5. H) and i)

      in the mean time all regional MLS systems have this ability built into their export functions. It may need some research but it should be there.

      If this is function to be attached to Streettext then you will need to source such API access from the individual CREA member you represent.


  10. I have to apologize to Mr. Moen, CREA does indeed engage the membership on the futures project in the newsletter as he noted: “Realtors have been engaged through the following; a dedicated intranet site; a virtual discussion on a futures forum site; several articles in News2Me, CREA’s newsletter received by over 85,000 Realtors. And we’re not stopping there.”

    In fact the latest News2me Issue 5 Volume 1 arrived via email this morning which did address ‘the futures plan’ thusly:

    “Time to Take the Leap

    A report summarizing the Futures discussions at the AGM and the next steps in the process is now available for download on the Futures site.”

    It did register a place of prominence – on the bottom right side of the page underneath the important topics “[email protected]#! I can’t get this to work” and directly below “CREA stats.”

  11. Thank you Wayne, as always, clear and concise. Here's what we are doing, here is how we will communicate with you. Here's how you can give feedback.
    Great direction.

  12. Shame on PED for publically body slamming the president of the Canadian Real Estate Association – and after he was brave enough to climb into the ring. Usually one would need to tune in professional wrestling to see such a spectacle. I hope Mr. Moen doesn't try to even things up by picking up a chair! I believe that professional wrestling is sometimes referred to as sports entertainment. With the recent CREA advertising campaign perhaps professional real estate has now become professional real estate entertainment?

  13. This article should be re-named "CREA will not respond to REM reader comments".

    Why does this organization consistently display a lack of forthrightness and honesty to PAYING members? This is the forum most Realtors read nationally so….How about some answers to the questions in these posts? How about some discussion CREA?

    I personally believe we DO need a strong national lobby group for representing members in legal and legislative issues but what else do we need a national organization for? NOTHING! Just represent the membership vis-a-vis regulatory issues which concern Realtors and their clients. PERIOD. ~ It certainly appears CREA has not been up to the job, and now again with the coming FINTRAC issue. Lawyers resisted strongly (strange the government would agree, because the conveaynce is the best juncture for collecting this info as all buyers and sellers including FBBOs go through there) and will not have to collect the info. CREA has let us down again, leaving the Realtor on the hook. Apparently the Lawyers have a better lobby group than we do, is it any surprise?

    I think most members feel we need a NEW national orgazination with a clear mandate from members. Most members I talk to feel their interests have not been well represented…ie: We wanted CREA to hire a bulldog lawyer and take CB to court. Most members feel based on actions of CREA over the last three years that CREA are representing themselves instead of the members.

    CREA should definitely not be involved with running, they have shown themselves to be NOT WORTHY as keepers of our trust either by mismanagement and incompetence, and misrepresenting the collective will of members to the CB….or not representiing it at all re: new FINTRAC rules.

    As a matter of fact the time has come: Each province can easily run it's own MLS webpage, and then the national organization can have simple webpage with a link to each provincial MLS database on it. Simple. No need to pay technology fees to CREA for that!

    I also believe the time has come to start amalgamating real estate boards. There simply isn't a need for all that hard infrastructure anymore. Many boards are still staffed by the same number of people as when said staff input our data and photos. Now I walk through the board office and see that new jobs have been invented for those people who used to do all that MLS grunt work (which the members now do!) And the monthly fees/yearly dues keep climbing despite great advances in technology…where are the efficiencies?

    These are the issues I keep hearing about from ordinary members when we do have a moment to discuss…and without exception there is deep frusturation expressed by all. How could it get to this? I think you know the answer.

  14. I agree with the above comment "The power of One" . CREA is not addressing our concerns. Time to dismantle CREA. How do we do that?

  15. Mr. Moen – Even if one does not submit to the urge to dismiss your comments as self-serving spin, (and I sympathize with the thankless nature of your position, believe me), your comments underscore, unintentionally, the root problem with CREA. Mr. Thompson of SellerInvite is correct – mere postings are a fact of life: get over it. CREA's focus now seems to be an endless round of committee meetings and recrimination about the impacts of the consent agreement with the CB. Mr. Moen, when the opportunity was there to defend the proprietary nature of the web-site, CREA ducked: let's face it -the horse has not just left the barn, we let it out (and chased it off). Most proffessional Realtors have no issue with discount brokerage: it's been around for decades and has its niche. What is frustrating is consenting to allow the web-site to be utilized for direct marketing by owners. I wish FSBO's all the luck in the world: I simply don't wish to subsidize them. Furthermore, I believe a more aggressive posture by CREA with the CB might have delivered that message.
    As we dither over the past and weep and moan about the CB, The Minister of Finance is on the verge of imposing even more odious FINTRAC requirements on the industry, and NOT one representative from the CREA made a submission to the Senate committee expressing our position. In a year, we'll all be weeping and moaning about that, too. CREA just doesn't seem to get it: – it's a fast paced world out there, and without any effective legal department or political lobby, CREA is going to keep getting run over. Spending years composing a backward-looking position just isn't going to work. Personally, I like the idea of an effective National Association, but I've waited 22 years and am still waiting to see one.

  16. I find the opening comment in the article rather funny.

    "I thought I would offer readers and online posters some information on what’s actually going on in organized real estate". (Thanks so Much) "Too often we see people offering opinions on issues they are not current with or don’t have the latest information and that often creates confusion, frustration and fear. Hopefully my comments will clear up a few misconceptions".

    I know I have been waiting to hear CREA's postion on just about anything for years with no luck. Now I am being told THEY know whats going on in organized Real Estate and the rest of us should shut up, listen and pay our dues, CREA knows whats best for us, they simply will not talk with us. From this article I can see why. They are totally lost with the day to day challenges we face because of THEIR decisions (or lack there of) trying to help the industry.

  17. Quick question. Why does the President of CREA write "Realtor" when we are being told that the term ia s atrademark and must always be written as REALTOR (R) ?

    The folowing is taken directly from the CREA website. I use this merely as an example of the inconsitencies which seem inherent in may communications from CREA

    "This is because of trademark requirements for the word REALTOR®, which is a trademark held by REALTOR® Canada Inc. Members are licensed to use the terms REALTOR® and the REALTOR® logos only in forms that will emphasize the status, significance and special meaning of the trademarks for the consumer, and distinguish them from words of ordinary use. This is why if you are using the word in text form, you are required to display it all in capital letters.

    As a limited exception to CREA's rules regarding the use of the REALTOR® mark, the term can appear in lower case letters in actual domain names and email addresses. The REALTOR® term can only be used in domain names or email addresses in conjunction with the name of the member or the member's firm. It can never be used alone or with geographical, descriptive or other modifiers. Punctuation, while preferred, is not mandatory. "

    • Wendy, the letter from CREA did indeed have the word all in caps and with the (R) symbol. REM changed it to fit our magazine/website style, in keeping with Canadian Press guidelines.

      When REM uses the word as Realtor, we are conforming to CREA's guidelines – specifically:

      Quoting from CREA's Trademark Toolkit:
      "16.5.3: Exceptions to Form Requirements: National and local media outlets may display the REALTOR® marks by capitalizing only the "R" and are not required to display the ® symbol following the Marks, all in accordance with the Associated Press Style Book or the United Press International Style Book."

      REM is one of the few media outlets that does put a capital letter on Realtor in our news stories.

      So in this case don't blame CREA – blame REM for changing it.

      Jim Adair
      REM editor

  18. Great emails Brian and I concure. Just one thing though, you say "new way of doing real estate" but I say some of us have been doing an honest and forthright job of doing real estate for many years (sometimes made fun of by the high rollers). In the end, in my view, it is how we have conducted ourselves with OUR business model over the years that speaks the truth to the public. They know an honest one when they meet them. Look forward to reading more of your emails.

    • Hi Jan Henderson:

      Thank you for your reply.

      Re my "new way of doing real estate" comment:

      Absolutely! There are many Realtors who act as professionals when conducting business with the public as well as with one another as you correctly stated. I did not mean to infer that all Realtors have been and continue to be deficient in their so-called pursuit of conducting business in a professional manner. If my statements have been misconstrued by some, I apologize for my transgression.

      However, far too many fall into the category that I personally disdain, being the category of the slick, quick rehersed-answer-for-every-objection, hand pumping, back slapping jokester on one hand, or the opposite kind, the quiet, won't look you in the eye for more than two seconds, keeps everything to him/her self, doesn't offer advice unless asked for same, personality, both types trying their best to "do the deal" at almost any expense to their clients. Often said clients don't even know that they have been bushwacked by a real smoothy, thinking naively that they have obtained a 'great deal' via the exertions of Joe/Jane Smooth. These are the types that I want to see removed from the very important positions of dealing with the public's emotions/money vis a vis real estate transactions.

      It is folks like yourself who need to speak out in defence of your professional way of doing business. To that end the "new way" of doing business will become the overall "only way" that it will be conducted by licensed Realtors, which in your case, as well as in the cases of many, many other Realtors of good repute, has always been the way of practising.

      It is just that there are far too many shysters out there being protected by some powers that be within organized real estate…for financial reasons…by some brokerages and their sleazy managers.

      Sorry folks, but I don't believe in couching my words when it comes to the crookery within our business.

      Professional practitoners…rise up and band together against those who cause you to be tarred with the public brush of disain…for your own communal good.

      A new national organization under the tutelege of folks like yourself will allow you all to kill two birds with one stone, being the elimination of a bloated, bureaucratic entity (CREA), and the establishment of a really strict organization vis the vis allowance of half-assed wannabe sales types looking for big, quick bucks at others' expenses.

      Let me at 'em!

      Got to go now…keyboard's smoking.


    • Hi Brian,
      I understood that you were not lumping us all together as unethical. My apology. I did not mean to get off topic.

  19. The Power of 1…..1 province..1 board..1 data site( free to licenced members and cost to any others). Lets get back to a simple model and opt out of Crea and

    • CREA is fighting to save itself. It no longer has value and we have too many levels of people trying to look after us, much dupication form local to provincal to national. Lets just have an inter board listing agreement for all boards and opt out of, and Crea.

  20. Really????….is the President so out of touch with this organization that he thinks these conversations are just happening on this thread… someone that is entrenched in the industry and speaks to hundreds if not thousands of agents a year, let me tell you Mr. President these conversations are happening amongst realtors in coffee shops, closing rooms, and offices across the country.
    They are as follows:
    CREA let us down immensely with the fight with the Competition Bureau.
    Why do we need CREA and what do they do for us, if they don't have the stones to fight for us.
    Why do we still have REALTOR.CA as it is ruining our profession as we know it.
    Further, Mr. President
    Why not post a question in your surveys (to the membership – not representatives!) that asks if realtors want to keep…I guarantee you 75% minimum will say scrap it tomorrow and our business models (the full timers, not the hobbyists) and success will go through the roof!!!!

    The problem is noone is talking to the guys pounding the pavement and us that do, recognize the grave issues with what has become!

    • Competition Bureau. CREA's Nemesis.
      Can you please also speak to the utterly ridiculous ads that you have on TV.

      We don't cater to idiots and insinuating that people who don't use Realtors are idiots is stupid!

      Strengthen our position with those that already see us as valuable. Forget the FSBO mentality, leave them be and stop fueling their war chest
      Start showing positive ads like how Realtor actually work, show Realtors in class, show them consulting with clients on real issues, show them discussing and consulting issues with seller.
      CREA you have a lot to learn and it will come to you from the pavement where most Realtors operate.

    • You are so right Rob but unfortunately CREA didn't have a fight with the CB. They "settled" thinking that the CB would say OK Realtors thats good enough….wrong again. But all of that is water under the bridge now. There have been several predictions that in 5 years there will be 50% of the Realtors in the business….some of those may retire, some Brokers are already selling their Operations (some to non licensed people) and there will be changes coming to the Franchise systems as well. CREA only wants to hear from the Agents who agree with the Futures Task Force thats why only 1000 have been engaged out of 85,000 (my numbers may be out of date). I agree with the suggestion of one MLS system per Province (I currently belong to TREB and RAHB which cost me too much then add on RECO, OREA and CREA. They all are getting reserves set up in case the 50% comes true which is a good business decision for them each protecting their turf. Most Broker Owners that I have spoken personally to "don't care if there are on 50% in 5 years".
      The next problem will be the DDF which will be coming but it will be left to each Broker Owner to decide if their listings will go on the DDF….where is our collective voice….what do we have to do to wake up the "sleeping giants" the "big producers", The Brokers will usually listen to them but here in the GTA they are too busy trying to stay in business….LETS HOPE IT NOT TOO LATE FOR ALL OF US….I look forward to any responses…sorry I didn't mean for this to go on for so long.

  21. If you don't mind, I'll skip this response pasted out of your marketing material. Yes, I said marketing material because I think you probably have 80% of your staff "marketing" to members and 20% doing what we need.

    CREA has proven itself to be a dinosaur. I started real estate in 2005 and have consistently been amazed at how gutless and behind the times they are. The only thing worse is my local London Ontario board.

    This comment is an understatement, not some irrational rant.

  22. straight answers is what we need as members not rhetoric from want to be politicians. There was no purpose to this article, REM should at least ask our "Leaders" to add some content to what they are writing.
    Tired of waiting for answers, I met with the competition Bureau myself last week and I think I'll write to REM and have them post the article. Because it gave me clarity on the issues and made me realize that this is nothing more than a power struggle between Boards and the Realtors (not the public). It all comes down to who controls the information. And ironically, the CB is fighting for the Realtor to have total access of both active and sold data, so they can disseminate it any way they wish and ONLY to their clients and NOT the public! When asked if third party companies like zoocasa, or zillow can gain access to the data, their answer was NO. That decision can only be made by the individual Realtor not the Board or CREA. I'm getting tired of the games CREA and our Boards are playing with our reputations. The average member has no say in this, our Board of Directors take direction from CREA and do what they say, when CREA should have no input into our marketing and advertising of our listings, including Name me any other association that controls the advertising of an entire industry like CREA. It's ludicrous! The competition bureau wants Realtors to have control over their data through VOW's and other electronic means, so why is there a battle over us gaining access to our own listings?
    Mere postings are an issue because Realtors (not the public) asked for them. The enemy is not the CB it's US. And I guess we're all too stupid to realize it.

    • Excellent comments. I agree with you totally. I think it is time to reduce the controls that the various levels from CREA to the boards to the brokerages have over the Real Estate Sales person. I see no value for a National Real Estate Organization. Each province should have it's own organization. I content that is the main problem.

    • B. Allen

      You mention "only to their clients" and this is the critical question in your post.

      Is the CB aware that to become a client the consumer is required to enter a contractual relationship with a REALTOR?

      If they are, then their attack on TREB should immediately cease and desist.

      Also….under all the current rules and regulations of the regional MLS systems I have reviewed, each and every one already allows for the dissemination of information to the clients of a REALTOR. Customers in many boards are not allowed access.

      I, have not seen, any regional MLS who bans this dissemination of information in an electronic format. If you know of any I would sincerely appreciate it being posted here.

      TREB has opened access up for this information to both clients and customers as well, so the CB's attack on TREB appears to be in direct contradiction to what they told you.

      What is your opinion on these comments?


  23. During our last provincial election I posted the comment on facebook "I voted therefore I am!" and it elicited some interesting responses from family and freinds. What I'm eluding to is that I've personally participated in these cross country sessions and completed the web questionaires and I care that I have a say in the future of our industry, because of this I can proudly express my opinions, but it surprised me how many did not participate.

    Never before has the change been so dramatic in our industry and its clear there is a lot of misinformation – fear mongering is a direct result of that. So why don't we choose to seek proper information? Why do we choose not to participate? And why is it that when the $%*& hits the fan that so many are so quick to point fingers? So to those posing the challenging questions and contributing to the fear mongering, I have to ask…have you participated?

    These are tough times for you guys and good leadership has never been so important, so I wish you all the best Wayne and it's great to see you're response here and I hope to see you here again in the future.

    Wayne if you should be reading the responses here then I'd like to throw a couple points at you; is our greatest asset and tool, and it's what I feel we need to promote more than anything to the public and access to its numbers on a real time basis would be of a great help. I tell sellers "there is no better marketing than a well priced home on and no by owner website can even come close to matching the results or the exposure".

    Mere Postings are here to stay but the idea of a company from out of province posting locally has misled many sellers and has alienated them even further, it's also contributed to deteriorating the integrity of the MLS System. A simple rule stating that a property must be submitted through the local Board and abide by that Boards rules would go a long way to protecting our Systems integrity and our reputations.


    Rod Thompson, Broker and Founder Edmonton

    • Rod, CREA held a dozen initial meetings across Canada with a total of 900 mostly invited attendees to discuss their Futures project. Information gleaned from that was taken to 375 others who discussed the plan. Despite deliberation and opposition to the FSBO and opening up our data, the only thing arising from that was word play after what appears to me to be a well planned political and psychology manoeuvre by CREA and its facilitators to ensure their objective was never out of focus. It then went to 20 board representatives and 28 CREA directors. The boards required some amendments and additions yet the plan was produced with little change from the initial meeting for the AGM which was attended by some 400 delegates.

      A proposed amendment to the FSBO issue was raised at the AGM and after “brief debate” the motion was defeated and the plan passed.

      100,000+ members across Canada – some meetings closed to invitees only – issues decided by the elected representatives who failed to communicate with the members they represent. Issues decided by a grand total of 1,703 members.

      CREA currently has 19 directors, the only consolation prize to come from that plan is the fact that it was voted they lose 3. Only 16 more to go.

      CREA says it sends emails to members yet, I recall receiving only 2 this year – both useless drivel as I had previously commented and if memory serves there was a disclaimer that emails are not sent to all members. Now they’re all about open communication and will be telling all members about ‘the plan’ via video snippets which will allow for our feedback on an already done deal.

      Hanging chads anyone?

      This is what one CREA member ( who shall remain unnamed and it is not me) wrote on the futures site regarding why CREA does not allow one member electronic voting:

      “To compare a business to a political organization is really the reason we are in the mess we are today. Just like the futures presentation, that cost me 3 hours and over $500 to attend, the structure of CREA votes is carefully orchestrated to get a previously preferred message passed….”

      I absolutely concur do you Rod?

    • Rod – real estate is and always has been local " could be your greatest asset and tool, If it promoted individual members by location, CREA as an industry organization should be promoting their members not listings.

    • Hi PED:

      Re your May 29th, 2012, 9:44 P.M. reply to Rod Thompson:

      You may recall that prior to the St. John NFLD meeting awhile back, wherein selected members of all boards across Canada were required to attend (and vote accordingly…how else does one justify a 100% vote in favour of CREA's 'ideas'?), prior directions had gone out from CREA to the grass roots members (us), who by the way paid for all of that grand venue, not to discuss relevant issues to be voted upon thereby with the media should the media ask us every-day in-the-trenches-Realtors questions about said issues. I read the direction from CREA with disdain. "Where the hell do they think we are living…in China?" I heatedly thought. Well what do you know; someone from the media contacted me about the pending NFLD meeting and the lack of availability of comment from Realtors who were following orders for the most part. The media in question was The Globe and Mail. The reporter was Steve Laterendre. He called me right at home.

      "How did you get my name and number?" I asked.

      "I follow your comments on REM, your number was easy." he replied.

      "I would like to ask you some questions about the St. John pending meeting." he said.

      "You know Steve, we have been directed not to talk to the media about this stuff." I replied.

      "I know" he said.

      "Have you talked to any other Realtors?" I asked.

      "A couple."

      "Well, I don't believe in all of this bullshit stuff about claming up to protect the interests of CREA's agenda…what do you want to know?" I retorted.

      And so it was…I answered his specific question with my assessment regarding the heavy handedness of CREA's "leaders".

      Steve asked my why it was, in my opinion, that CREA was being so secretive about its agenda, and why we were not supposed to discuss same with the media.

      "Because Steve, CREA seems to think that the great unwashed (us) do not have the ability to deal with all of this complicated policy direction. They (CREA) want this stuff to go down without any fuss from us grunts…pure and simple."

      My comments appeared in the Globe the next day (Saturday) sans the word "grunts". One other Realtor was quoted as well, a female broker from Hamilton espousing a somewhat milder take on the situation via more sanitized words.

      I was looked upon with a sceptical eye around my office thereafter by the naive, great unwashed, for the most part.

      That was quite awhile ago.

      During March of this year Ross K and I wrote comments decrying CREA's actions, and I initiated my personal on-line campaign then and there to throw down the gauntlet, to marshall the great unwashed against CREA and its permanent, bureaucratic mandarins, who likely call most of the shots therein. The one-per-year part-time 'leaders?" are pure figureheads, something like golf and country club presidents who come and go regularly at the whim of the annointers therein, said wannabe presidents lusting to have their official presidential posed-for images hung in the hallowed halls of past presidents for all to see. What a crock!

      Do you recall the posed-for pic of the past CREA prez., statuesquely situated with hand on a golf club, looking very all-knowing through eyes carefully aimed at the great unwashed with a look of upper-class-English-Lord fuedal superiority? Do I overstate my impression?

      Sorry ex-prez….my keys poundeth over.

      Now you all know where I stand…as an ex Realtor no less!

      This is what I have so much trouble with; bullshit in high places where there should be leadeship at the actual behest of the paying constituents!

      I've been pissed off (no kidding!) for quite awhile now. Quiting the business has not lessened my passion for the creation of a new order in organized real estate throughout Canada…Crea and it's in-house, salaried, influential 9 to 5 mandarins guiding naive wanabe leaders of the day be damned!

      We can do better…much better, once the shackles of the "We know what is best for you all" money-grabbing pontificators are thrown off and out the door.

      I may currently be out of real estate, but the Realtor herein, curiously, is not out of me, yet!

      There is a job to be done…and done well.

      It is worth doing…is it not?



  24. I will ask Mr. Moen to respond here on REM ( because he himself has already done so publicly above), the single most important question my wife, my children, the charities I support, the community groups I support, and my clients, all need CREA to stop refusing to answer.

    Will CREA, post alongside each property marketed on, a Fact based advertorial to legally inform and factually educate, the Canadian public, of the dangers, legal pitfalls, limitations and financial risks of a $1 Mere Posting Listing taken by a CREA member and posted on

    Yes or No

    • B ALLAN responding to your questions

      ROSS "You mention “only to their clients” and this is the critical question in your post.
      Is the CB aware that to become a client the consumer is required to enter a contractual relationship with a REALTOR?
      If they are, then their attack on TREB should immediately cease and desist."

      B ALLAN CB is well aware. a client is a person registering as a buyer or seller with a realtor, electronically or in person.. Either way the realtor must explain agency to the client before the relationship can begin. This can be done on a VOW.

      ROSS "Also….under all the current rules and regulations of the regional MLS systems I have reviewed, each and every one already allows for the dissemination of information to the clients of a REALTOR. Customers in many boards are not allowed access.
      I, have not seen, any regional MLS who bans this dissemination of information in an electronic format. If you know of any I would sincerely appreciate it being posted here.

      B ALLAN Really? i have called every board in ontario asking them for a VOW feed and only TREB has responded with a feed of active listings only. All other Boards have either ignored my request or have told me they are working on their own policies. not one board is offering sold data to their own agents. NOT ONE. This is what the CB is trying to get for us (the realtors) so we can offer this information to our clients through our VOW's.

      ROSS "TREB has opened access up for this information to both clients and customers as well, so the CB’s attack on TREB appears to be in direct contradiction to what they told you.
      What is your opinion on these comments?

      B ALLAN The access for VOW's is only active listings at the moment thru treb. they do not offer sold data. CB is trying to acquire that feed for treb members so they can disseminate this information direct to their clients. Not to the public.

      Is there any realtor on the planet that would not want access to their own board data to present to their clients in a manner they see fit? Instead of having to use board software. I am talking about a system where the client is part of the MLS system and where the client goes to the realtor's site for all the information. Shortly I will show you what I mean.

    • B Allen

      In Ontario

      1) registering does not make anyone a client, they remain customers until a contract is signed

      2) something fishy is now in your post…why are you looking to get sold data from all ontario mls systems…sounds like another in the works…if not please supply a way to eliminate your anonymity from your posts

      3) sold data is available from every mls system in ontario already to any member of that mls…20 years of solds for any city or community are downloadable in 3 to 4 minutes of work….again your comments red flags as this is typical talk coming from comfree or theredpin

      Now if the anonymous nature of your posts end we can vest your comments better

    • Say what you say, in your own words. Then tell them what you said. Then answer questions arising from the discussion. Explain what you said.

      Tell them what you meant by what you said, and why you said what you said. Ask them if they understand what you said. This is actually part of someone’s teaching program. I forget who.

      Tell them what you will do for them, as a person, as an agent, as an organization. Tell them what to expect you to do, how, when, and why. Ask them if they understand. Give them material to read. Ask if they read it. Do they have any questions for you. Explain the material.

      Discover no one is listening. No one had time to read. But they all have time to criticize others' behaviour and work skills and mindsets, and tell the world how useless Realtors(R) are.

      I am certainly no expert and gave up sitting on committees, even so I enjoyed the repartee, because it often is the old-boy's club. Believe me I can hold my own, in the discussions. But I am a questions asker, and no one ever wanted to answer questions; sometimes I would hear: we'll look into it and get back to you,
      but never any feedback.

      Form a committee, perhaps even an ad hoc committee, to elucidate.

      I was on a committee and was asked to be the investigator of an on-going case. I did ALL the homework, spent probably twenty-five hours visiting offices, researching dates and reviewing files. I wanted to be fair and just and right, and understand the concept as well as the material at hand.

      I condensed a multi-page set of findings down to ten pages, numbered and cross-referenced items and their history, sorted by date within topic; tagged with small post it notes so if anyone needed to review on their own they would have everything they needed at their fingertips. It was a good and well-done file, if I do say so myself.

      I prepared a contents page (the only thing I didn't do was prepare an index for the back of the file findings – although I could have – no need). Because of the privacy issue involved, I personally photocopied and collated a dozen sets of the material, myself. Handed in the private report to the Board, the Chair of the Committee, and copies to its committee members.

      At next called-for meeting the Chair asked me to recap verbally, and said that he and the others had not had TIME to read the ten-page report. From my recap, they made their decision. All my hours of work for NADA… I had never participated at that level previously and set out to do a thorough job.

      I said don't ask me to do this again. I had asked for direction both from the Chair and from the Board as to how I was expected to handle the report. I followed directions. I took my allotted job seriously.

      I believe this is how nearly all committee participation works. Listen, perhaps take some notes, mental or on paper. Go away. Digest. Report back using questions at next meeting, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. THAT'S why nothing gets done. Let's think about it some more and review further and investigate again, and perhaps invite some more participants to enter into the fray.

      This, folks, is why we are in the mess we are in. I am not throwing stones at CREA or at OREA or at the Board. I am absolutely apolitical. And thanks, Brian Martindale for including my name with the honoured list you provided in a post of the all-knowing ones. But I only enter the discussion, not the battlefield per se. Why?

      Because even after all the years in the ring, I certainly am not qualified to deal with the level required to bring about your suggestions, but happy to input discussion from time to time, if there is something I can help you with.

      All I am saying is the SYSTEM is at fault. It's broken.
      Its being broken is no one's fault, in particular. Certainly no one member, in particular.

      I fear immensely for the, often big-name, Directors who are being sued personally; their life’s work could be in big jeopardy. I asked in a post if there was insurance there to protect them, but got no response. Perhaps no one knows for sure. The story
      behind the story when all is said and done likely will impact the availability of members to participate further, is my best guess.

      It's like the old ham-bone story and the pot it would not fit. Cut off the bone. Why? because that's what gramma always did and passed down the habit. Nothing will happen till EVERYTHING changes. The chances of getting EVERYTHING changed is slim to none, I fear.

      Do we understand the definition for the word “implode?”

      Carolyne L

    • Carolyne awesome post!

      From your excerpts below I think you've perfectly summarized what ails this industry. As the saying goes – when they came for so and so I didn't speak out until they came for me.

      From bottom to top and back it's APATHY!

      Were it not for that, opposing sides wouldn't be sparring on an online forum but would have hashed out all these major issues as they arose, in open invitation sessions, in every board 's jurisdiction.

      As an example, (can't speak for other boards), REALTOR Quest is held every year where they have rooms for courses and which hold I'd say between 1000 and 1500 people. I'm certain they'd be standing room only for a one to two hour session held over each of the two days for such major topics as the CB and changes. I doubt CE credits would even matter to the attendees.

      At the NAR conference thousands attend including a multitude of Canadian REALTORS to partake of sessions involving major issues and future impacts on the RE industry. CREA’s equivalent ingenuity is to host 12 road shows with an average attendance of 75.

      NAR’s conference is what engaging membership is about but of course this may take some changes to boundaries considering that CREA cited their not previously being permitted by boards to contact all of CREA's members. Yet, here we are after raising a stink in REM and elsewhere receiving their aptly named newsletter – "News2Me."

      Carolyne – "…At next called-for meeting the Chair asked me to recap verbally, and said that he and the others had not had TIME to read the ten-page report. From my recap, they made their decision. All my hours of work for NADA… I had never participated at that level previously and set out to do a thorough job…

      All I am saying is the SYSTEM is at fault. It’s broken.
      Its being broken is no one’s fault, in particular. Certainly no one member, in particular.

      I fear immensely for the, often big-name, Directors who are being sued personally; their life’s work could be in big jeopardy. I asked in a post if there was insurance there to protect them, but got no response. Perhaps no one knows for sure. The story
      behind the story when all is said and done likely will impact the availability of members to participate further, is my best guess…"

  25. Brian M. As I concluded reading your email to CREA's Prez. For a while I thought the sentence in brackets said "(Recently retired from organized crime)" I am just being playful with you of course. Hope you got a good laugh out of it.

    • Hi John M:

      Yes, I did enjoy a hearty laugh from your "organized crime" comment. Thanks for the chuckle!

      Some times, when turning in for the night re my real estate days, during my stints therein through the early eighties, mid nineties, and most recently, 2008 until last December, I felt like I was a member of 'organized grime' due to the pathetic so-called 'strategic' old and worn top-down learned negotiating tactics employed by the never-ending stream of amateurs in real estate masquerading as professionals. You know the kind, the folks who are always 'offended' with leading offers, the over-stators of the wonders of their listings, the folks who play the "first one to speak loses" thousand-year-old psycho-babble ploy etc. Some nights I needed two showers to feel cleansed of that day's onslaught of bullshit from the latest 'pro'-of-the-day.

      I believe that the predominant 'sell-sell-sell' culture of organized real estate is a long standing top-down derivation of old-school sales tactics taught surreptitiously by some real estate course instructors, and thereafter reinforced by some money-grubbing sales managers who have their eye only on one thing, being, the bottom line, a most unprofessional attitude. Advocacy for one's clients can thereafter become lost in the quest for in-house recognition as a top producer…financially. Sad.

      With the possibility of a 'new way' of doing real estate as the result of a possible reordering the national interest in organized real estate, I would hope that 'real professionalism' finds its way into the broad culture of representative real estate 'consultancies' across Canada, under the auspices of a new organization driven by the wishes of those who truly know how to establish a professional organization reflecting the wishes of professional real estate personalities.

      Attrition will take its toll, as always in this business, and thereafter will exist the possibility to restock the constituency of Realtors with folks forearmed with a professional mindset from the outset, impervious to sleazy money-grubbing managers' influences. But first there must be put in place a national professional organization that like-minded members can actually look up to…staffed by leaders, and not by conciliators to the whims of heavy-handed government agency bureaucrats' theoretical musings-turned-policies based upon what the hell the U.S. is doing…wrong. Ridiculous!

      I now hope that you too got a good laugh out of this, my latest rant.

      Brian…never lost for words…for better or worse.

    • Brian I am impressed by your words of wisdom. Well said and oh so true. I've put up up with Realtor's lack of ethics and unprofessionall tactics for decades, so what you describe is reality my friend. I've always said and maintained that residential real estate sales falls way short of being designated as a profession. In spite of it all however, the real estate business is a very strong power house due its large group of followers. As long as they have this large group of followers, this sect will remain a powerhouse, that no private for sale company will ever be able to compete with them. Especially so, on a hot real estate market. On such market, one would have to be nuts to try to sell their home privately, when they can expose it on MLS, sit back, relax and wait for a slew of overprced multiple offers to follow.

      The only thing that will put this hot real estate market to rest is a rapid increase in mortgage rates.In spite of the unrealistic high selling prices, buyers are having a field day by their ability to borrow cheap.

      Can you imagine? One can buy a house with a $400,000 mortgage that carries for around $1100.00 monthly P&I.

      Personally, I don't see any sign of interest rates going up anytime soon, so this picnic of good times is here to stay for an indefinite time yet.

      If however it becomes impossible to keep interest rates at such low levels, than you can watch all hell break loose. Panic selling will follow bringing sellers down on their knees. At this point all those so called hot shot real estate agents may very well wind up in the Salvation Army Hostels and soup lines and their private for sale counterparts will run around like chickens with their heads cut off..


      John M .

  26. Wayne:

    First of all, let me congratulate you on your new position as CREA's president.

    Now, I have some questions.

    You seem to indicate that folks like Ross K, PED, Alan M, Carolyne L and numerous others, including me, who to some degree or another disagree with CREA's direction vis a vis the Futures Strategic Planning Initiative, not to mention many past years of seemingly counter-productive initiatives by CREA members re the best interests of CREA's paying members (your employers), are misguided, ignorant of reality, and just plain silly as they/I continue to challenge your institutional right to dictate what will be in the real estate world of CREA.

    Question 1: How many Realtors participated in your so-called cross-country sessions, the dedicated intranet site, the virtual discussion on a futures forum site etc.?…How many in raw numbers per each venue? Do you know the answer?

    Question 2: Who created the multiple choice questions for your questionnaire? What are the choices? Is there a question asking members their opinions re the validity of CREA as it exists now? If not, why not?

    Question 3: What is your definition of a "great track record' vis a vis paying members of CREA's expectations of CREA?

    I have other questions, but I will refrain from asking them until the above are answered herein…if indeed they will be.


    Brian Martindale

    (Recently retired from organized real estate)

    • From one Brian to another Brian, I would like those answers as well and I wonder if the new president was in favor of running away from the tribunal that was in place to settle the CB issue, or did he blink first like CREA did, I can't believe we missed that opportunity, the worst decision I have seen in 35 years in the real estate industry.

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