Letters: DDF at cross purposes with Realtor.ca

Letters to the Editor Jul 24, 2012

One of the principle concepts under the Technology and Data sections of ORE – Map of the Future is that Realtor.ca should be improved to be more responsive to member and market needs. In fact, the ORE paper says, one of the potential benefits is that we may be able to generate revenue. Realtor.ca is primarily an advertising vehicle designed to generate leads for Realtors and like MLS, the strength of this site is its exclusivity as we have all or most of the MLS listed property on that site. Realtor.ca has also been very successful because the listing data is verified and regulated to be accurate. Integrity of data is very important to consumers and Realtors alike. Therefore as I asked CREA in my position paper, if Realtor.ca is currently the “go to” site, the most visited site for real estate in Canada, then why would we want to give this data to our third-party competitors through the Data Distribution Facility (DDF)?

CREA’s position is that DDF controls the accuracy of data on third-party sites (as well as control what they do with that data) and brokers or Realtors can choose to opt out of providing the data under DDF.

Does CREA assume that because the third-party organizations sign agreements with them, that alone will stop Realtors from sending listing data to the site anyway? Some Realtors will continue to send the data directly because they want a different presentation than the DDF will give them, so how does CREA stop that? How does CREA stop or control Realtors from sending their listings to the thousands of third-party sites (like Kijiji) that refused to sign agreements with CREA? Clearly DDF will not solve the control issue at all.

Frankly I believe that Realtors who like to send their listing data to third-party sites and who are annoyed by the responsibility of maintaining that data has influenced CREA to send this data for them and therefore save them a great amount of time. Bravo, but how does that help Realtor.ca continue to be the premier real estate site for consumers? By providing our data to the third-party competition, how does that make Realtor.ca more attractive to the advertisers who would like to advertise on our Realtor.ca site? Will not the third-party websites be competing for the same advertising dollars? Won’t the activity on Realtor.ca decline significantly once consumers can find the same data on other third-party sites and won’t that affect our advertising revenue potential? If activity on Realtor.ca drops significantly, won’t our members question why we are spending thousands of dollars on Realtor.ca when the same data can be found on countless other sites?

The argument that brokers and presumably salespeople can opt out of sending the data to third-party sites as if we have some control does not make any sense. If you, as a Realtor can send your listing data to third-party sites by simply checking a box on the listing input form, why would you not do it? I think every Realtor and brokerage (with few exceptions) will send every listing to these third-party sites through DDF. I can hear those who send this data to the sites now and the CREA brass saying, “EXACTLY”! Then I say why are we spending thousands of dollars on enhancing and maintaining Realtor.ca? Why not just send the third-party sites the data and save our money and aggravation on Realtor.ca? The facility in the DDF program that allows the distribution of data (IDX) to every Realtor in Canada is excellent and long overdue but the facility that distributes the data to third-party sites will cause the eventual demise of Realtor.ca in my opinion.

Realtor.ca continues to be the best lead-generating site for most Realtors. Consequently, CREA in my opinion should stop sending our data to third-party organizations immediately. This activity is at cross purposes to the strategy of enhancing and promoting Realtor.ca. CREA should then spend our money by either hiring an independent organization or otherwise, whichever is the best technology solution, and enhance Realtor.ca.

Let’s drive more and more consumers to Realtor.ca by marketing the site features as the only place to find verifiable, up-to-date and accurate MLS listed data provided exclusively by over 90,000 Realtors across Canada.  Because of the integrity of our data and the volume of our listings, consumers will soon find, as they already do, that they can rely on the accurate information we provide. Only significant traffic will allow Realtor.ca to attract national advertisers. Could Realtor.ca generate enough advertising dollars to offset the cost of Realtor.ca or CREA for that matter? Perhaps wishful thinking!

 

Vito Campanale C.A.

Broker of Record

Century 21 First Canadian Corp.

London, Ont.

 

  • Eyes on the Net

    Royal Lepage corporate, a company owned by the Brookfield group, officially entered the realtor.ca replacement sweepstakes with it's registering royallepage.ca for the National Franchisor Pool of the ddf. This move places Lepage at the head of the pack, beating remax.ca and Century21.ca to the punch and immediately elevates the urgency of smaller franchise brands, non-franchise brokerages, franchise offices and of course all 105,000 plus individual CREA members to take their own proactive steps.

    On August 15th, Royal Lepage corporate officially signed up royallepage.ca
    for the ddf. This was not unexpected as Lepage was currently the only national franchise brand to have it's national website supported by the realtor.ca infrastructure, currently still being paid for by all 105,000 plus members of the national association.

    Congratulations to Royal Lepage leadership for being the first to seize upon this opportunity.

    The battle has begun, are you ready?

    • Rita Giglione

      Eyes on the Net:

      I sat on the Data Distribution Task Force at Hamilton-Burlington Board along with 10 other well informed Realtors.

      It is my understanding that DDF will allow companies to run their website without having to maintain it ( very time consuming, and not always accurate & up to date info)

      So why the hype, do you actually think indiviual company websites are going to replace ……realtor.ca?

    • Rita Giglione

      Eyes on the Net:

      Clairification on my last post to you.

      "DDF will allow companies to run their websites without maintaining it"

      Should read:

      DDF will allow companies to run their websites without having to maintain content and accuracy of their Listings.

    • Eyes on the Net

      Rita , Exactly and those are the exact words used by both CREA representatives talking to the OMDREB and in the ddf videos.

      CREA has stated clearly that "the ddf will revolutionize online real estate" the CREA MTC commitee have stated CREA members are able to build better and more consumer freindly and more technologically better real estate search sites than realtor.ca is which the consumer would go to versus realtor.ca.

      Did you read the original FAQs CREA posted on the ddf before they revised them? Not the edited ones online with the new red text added but the original ones.

      Realtor.ca was dead the first time a fsbo was posted on it. The ddf is simply a work around to eliminate the fsbo problem.

      Question did your boards members see the FINAL ddf rules before your board voted to agree to it?

    • Rita Giglione

      Eyes on the Net:

      My point is why the hype?

      Many smaller company websited are not going to be user friendly, because there are a limited number of listings to view. Those listings may be filtered, altered.

      Why would a consumer spend 10 hrs searching for listing information on many smaller sites when they can spend 1 hr searching on realtor.ca. Realtor.ca is one stop shopping.
      On realtor.ca the listing information is regulated.

    • Eyes on the Net

      Sorry Rita I did not address your comment on what the DDF is.

      Your comment only addresses Module 2 of the DDF which really has no value to any agent and won't even be available to later this year.

      Module 1 is what the franchise brands are after and that is live now.
      Module 3 is what the 3rd parties (ie zoocasa) is after and that is to go live any day.

      The DDF will NOT save anytime in maintaining your own website for over 95% of CREA members. Unless you personally carry over 10 listings personally at all times their is no benefit to updating your own personal site with listings.

      Now Rita's ddf site is another matter ;)

  • Rita Giglione

    BBA is a great tool for Realtors and provides clairification for Clients and also sets a professional platform for Realtors…….as long as it signed at the earliest opportunity. I do not work with Buyers if BBA is not signed, my time is better spent with serious Buyers that will sign BBA.

  • Kenny

    Anybody else notice the For Sale By Owner ad on the right side of the screen?

    • Rita Giglione

      Kenny stop worrying about the sign on the right side of the screen.
      When a Realtor gets a BBA signed, they don't have to worry about FSBO. Right?

    • Dave

      So the purpose of having a BBA signed is to lock in the buyer so they cannot purchase a FSBO without you getting a commission. I always believed that the purpose was to offer a higher level of service / representation to the buyer client. Unfortunately many agents have buyers sign BBA for the wrong reasons. Unless you can represent your buyers 100% with no dual agency there is no advantage for a buyer to sign a BBA contract, they are better off being represented as customers and FREE to represent themselves. Under the present rules / situation few buyers should be committing themselves to signing a BBA which only advantage the agent.

    • Lou

      You bet I did. Nice going REM. Slap in the face to the Realtors who support this rag.

  • Eyes on the Net

    RE: Quebec leaving December 31st, 2012.

    1) First, English Canada must understand realtor.ca holds NO power in Quebec because all consumers in Quebec use Centris.ca and Quebec owns it. No other province has it's own provincial mls portal, instead all other provinces have spend 10 years sending all consumers to realtor.ca.
    (Of course this will end soon as individual realtors send that traffic to their own personal branded websites or their franchise brand websites.)

    2) Provincial Associations should wake up big time when they hear CREA say they are allowing individual boards or brokerages to maintain membership because this effectively could make the provincial bodies unnecessary.
    In Ontario, RECO is now the oversight/licensing body and OREA is fighting to find a roll as an education platform, thinking realtors will continue to pay multiple levels of oversight yearly dues.

    Dues payable for an Ontario sales rep who wants to participate in CREA:
    -RECO Insurance=$380
    -RECO registration=$125 (250 for 2 years)
    -national, provincial, local association dues=$700-$1500(depending on board)
    -local mls system fees= $720 (for mls access defacto mandatory)

    So with even the cheapest board membership creates a $1925 yearly cost and the most expensive (London $2725)

    So here is the number 105,000 REALTORS pay annually we are talking about $286,125,000. That's right 286 MIillion or 1/4 of a billion dollars.

    I guess Quebec woke up!

    • Chris Bone

      Over time this makes the gun registry look like childs play. We have close to 60,000 reps in Ontario and our insurance keeps going up and is mandatory. This means we are paying $22,800,000 a yr for insurance. I saw in a RECO update that we only paid $220,000 in claims last year. This begs some questions, why do we even carry insurance if the industry has been cleaned up, why are our insurance rates so high and constantly going up, why don'y we take on some risk and not pay? It also begs the question, who are the insurance companies and legal teams on this highly profitable gravy train?

    • Brian Martindale

      Hi Chris Bone:

      There is a lot of money to be made selling commercial group insurance policies through outfits like RECO (nudge nudge, wink wink).

      I worked for PAFCO INSURANCE many years ago (I was a friend of the V.P.) as a national warranty adjuster. I also knew their brain trust guy, a guy who was paid to think up "products" to market to the public and to businesses; the actuaries already knew how much profit there would be when said products were sold. They only lost money on one portion of one product amongst many products, and were subsequently bought out by a U.S. conglomerate, which wound up PAFCO, for profitable reasons of course.

      Have you ever heard of kick-backs?

      Brian

  • Bob Van de Vrande

    We need province wide real estate boards, probably using CREA's Realtor.ca platform (or a provincial version thereof if CREA doesn't get it right soon) both for salespeople to use as their own MLS system and as an interface with the public. This would eliminate a great deal of duplication, cost and confusion and make the entire MLS process far easier for salespeople and the public. If we as an industry do not do this soon ourselves, a major internet/marketing/media player will do this and make everything that organized real estate does irrelevant. Does the term 'Realtorsauras' ring any bells for those who have followed CREA's activities. CREA sees the danger but now we need the solution – SOON PLEASE !

  • Chad McBain

    LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!! No not the Olympics, but today's press release states that as of today Quebec will be pulling out of CREA by the end of the current year. No can we have rational discussion here in Ontario about doing the same Please!

    • Chad McBain

      In the last sentence I meant to say Now …not no Lol.

    • GP

      Hooray for Quebec….Let's all kick CREA to the curb and take back our industry!!!

    • PED

      Most interesting. Let's see what CREA does to maintain 15,000 registrants because the issue as I understand it according to reading both sides, i.e FCIQ & CREA, is that:

      The FCIQ was unhappy with CREA's rising fees for poor services and wanted CREA to provide a fee for service model of its services. CREA wouldn't budge.

      And how could they really? It would be rather difficult to split into a fee for service the one service they actually do, nay, did provide – maintenance of realtor.ca. Everything else is duplicated and triplicated at the board and provincial levels.

      On top of which CREA's brass were arrogant enough to pretty much sell realtor.ca to third party non-real estate industry companies for an insulting pittance then jack up membership fees in the process.

      But I digress.

      So, one of FCIQ's boards – Montreal, terminated its CREA membership. FCIQ then decided that because of the CREA imposed tripartide agreement which specifies that no board can be a member of a provincial association unless the board is also a CREA member (or some such mumbo jumbo empirical wording), they weren't going to alienate any board and pulled out as a provincial association member of CREA.

      Technically then as of December CREA is shy 15% of its membership.

      Here's the interesting part. Apparently CREA, despite this requirement which I understand to be true, is claiming that this doesn't mean individual boards can't be CREA members.

      So, is CREA preparing to bend, change the rules so as not to lose $4,500,000 in fees? That's a lot of CREA boondoggles and pensions not covered after all. Er, I meant to say a lot of listings point2 can't make money off of.

      If they do massage the rules, boards will now have the ability to drop off like flies forcing the provincial association to either take control of their own MLS listings just as Quebec will need to do or also become redundant. And if Quebec's other boards backed the move then it is an undeniable fact that CREA's brass' heads are buried firmly in quicksand.

      because le voila!

      The CREA provincial replacements are born.

    • Brian Martindale

      Hi GP:

      Nice, succinct expression of forward looking thinking on your part.

      I would add just one thing though; you all, 100,000 of you, already own 'the industry' collectively (you just don't realize it) via common ownership through your ongoing funding efforts. You have simply allowed the so-called managers, your CREAcrat employees, to condition your thinking into believing that 'they' own the bus, and that you are simply riding in their bus. It is 'your' bus, you paid for it, and you continue to pay for it. The CREAcrats are nothing more than 'your' money managers hired by you and deferred to by you with far too much conditioned and accepted worshipping at the alter of so-called superior intellects.

      Bull shit baffles brains

      Get 'your' brains in gear on an organized, concerted national level, like our friends with gonads in Quebec have just done, and get on with firing those money managers via BANKRUPTCY creating procedures.

      You hold the reigns…$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$…not CREAcrats.

      Give them the democratic opportunity to go find another bus to drive into the ditch.

      Take your highjacked bus back, once and for all.

      KEEP YOUR MONEY!!!

      Brian

  • Haney Agent

    I have been reading all the comments to this article and I have to admit, its all way over my head. I look at it this way…NOT EVERYONE HAS HEARD OF REALTOR.CA ! ! ! Its my job as REALTOR { insert trademark here } to sell my clients property for top dollar in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of hassle and, third party websites will help me to do just that. Also it will increase my chances of bringing the sale into a MULTIPLE OFFER SITUATION. Its up to me as a marketing specialist to expose the subject property to the greatest amount of potential buyers as possible and I do that through REALTOR.CA and numerous other websites available to me. My JOB is to find my OWN buyer for my listings and not to rely on a cooperating agent to bring me a buyer. I do that by driving my own personal website to the top of the search engines through SEO and through MLS reciprocity. Its not about a right way or wrong way of going about it ….its about whatever works ! Perhaps I am off base here, I don't know but, as far as I'm concerned…whatever gets my listings noticed across the 4 corners of the web is good for me !

    • Kenny

      Whats going to happen to your model when "they" remove our ability to double end deals?

    • Eyes on the Net

      Kenny, organized real estate will not be required to remove dual agency because the DDF will effectively allow this to happen naturally.

      True Buyer Agency, for the first time, will be a viable and lucrative business model for about 15% of all current registrants with the DDF.

      Actually, I suspect because of the DDF you will see increased franchise sales (including the existing brands) targeted to being exclusive buyer brokerage offices. I suspect existing broker owners, who now legally can own more than one office, in a corporate structure, will be early adopters.

  • Alan M.

    When I review the CREA promotional material for the DDF the focus or pitch seems to be that this concept is better for the REALTOR – as having additional listings to promote that aren't yours will help increase one's personal brand. What I find is missing in all this is any focus on what's best for the sellers. There's even a video clip with a real estate professional talking up how the DDF would've helped him to sell more cottage type properties, but if his doing so would have been at the expense of any sellers that hired him to sell their cottage – because of him also promoting competing properties on his own website – he's extolling the idea of personal benefit over seller client benefit!

    When we're hired to sell someone’s home I don't think they're interested in having additional listings on our individual REALTOR websites that aren't our personal listings that will perhaps compete with their home – why would they be? I think there's some confusion over what stance the Competition Bureau might have in all, as I think their interest (C.B.) is limited to how aggressively we compete against each other. If my seller believes that it isn't in their best interest to participate in any module of the DDF, how could that be any business of the Competition Bureau of Canada?

    REALTOR.ca became a problem for professional real estate because it had the effect of obscuring the public perception of how diverse our industry is – in terms of the numerous business models – because it had the incorrect perceptional effect of blending us all together. While REALTOR.ca may have created the incorrect perception of blending us all together, the DDF can factually blend us all together thereby turning what had been an incorrect perception into a reality! I think that competition is more purely represented on REALTOR.ca, and we can’t dismantle it now in the face of VOW’s.

    There are those that want the public to think that it all comes down to exposure on REALTOR.ca. When it fact, any time I’ve had multiple offers on a listing it was because each buyer was already working with an agent, and the prevailing buyer’s agent would be paid. Yesterday I received an email offer that contained the largest offer of a selling commission percentage wise at 4% that I’ve ever seen. The aforesaid offer of 4% came directly from the seller of a “mere posting” type listing that is on REALTOR.ca, and is further proof that just being exposed on REALTOR.ca isn’t what it’s all about.

    While some seem to think the DDF is consistent with the spirit of competition and what the C.B. would encourage, it seems to me that if everyone is also promoting their competitors property listing through any kind of open advertising we've lost sight about the most basic fundamentals of competition, and our seller clients might rightly start to wonder about our commitment to compete on their behalf against other property listings.

    I think we need to remind ourselves that there are two categories of consumers that are to be considered in all this: buyers and sellers, and when we're working for a seller in a full agency relationship we have a responsibility of undivided loyalty to them.

    Perhaps CREA should replace their preferred choice for approved delegates with some average seller clients, and solicit an opinion from them on what they think is best?

  • Bob Farrell

    VITO … I agree one hundred percent. Someone at CREA just doesn't get the value of the web site and its content.
    Having said that.
    IF CREA does understand the value of the data perhaps CREA can explain why they are not charging enough enough for the data distribution to negate all our fees and create a cash dispursement fund to us.

  • Eyes on the Net

    Note: You have no option with Module 1 of the Data Distribution Facility as clearly dozens of lawyers have already opined that to not participate would be anti-CB. Just read the rules and documentation of the Data Distribution Facility. So….

    VITO is RIGHT and you had better click NO to Module 3 because:

    The Battle Royale has begun for the competition to replace realtor.ca. It will be dirty and hard fought. You know REAL business, where millions are at stake. There will be massive losers and massive winners. Millions upon Millions of dollars have already been committed to updating national search sites like Zoocasa and Househunting, all in anticipation of the DDF. For only a $60,000 payment to CREA, Zillow (which replaced realtor.com as #1 in the states) can open it's zillow.ca branch and be added to the dashboard.

    Point2Homes just launched a new national search site in the US which excluded Canadians since launch because it did not want to expose it's true face to CREA before the DDF actually launched. And NO this isn't those cozy initially FREE sites Point2 conned members into signing up for but a national site designed to make Point2 more money from YOU!

    Let's not forget the national Franchise brands. Does anyone really believe they won't make a bold move into this space?

    Do you think any attempt by any brand or brokerage to exclude their listings from the DDF will not be quickly faced with a CB complaint that formerly would have headed to CREA?

    It is an exciting time in real estate. The decisions you make in the next 6 months will dictate whether you remain viable or not.

    Get educated and take action as quickly as you can!!

    • Brian Martindale

      Hi there Eyes on the Net:

      Following up on your last line…

      "Get educated and take action as quickly as you can!!"

      …I would add…

      "Get organized!!…and take down CREA as quickly as you can"…and with it, all of its naive, short-sighted, CREA-friendly, in-the-trenches-Realtor-adverse, give-away contractual obligations to boot.

      Let the free-loading money-grubbers sue the then defunct CREA principals for not ensuring within their contracts the survivability of same post CREA.

      This is all about all out war, for control of your own futures in real estate.

      Brian

  • Kenny

    I am a little surprised that some other agents indicated they do not get many leads from REALTOR.ca. I routinely get calls about my listings from REALTOR.ca. As soon as I put my sign on the front lawn I can expect a call from at least a few nosey neighbours. They call and say I can't find your listing and was wondering about price etc…then the next day after the CREA upload, almost all non agent represented buyers contact me via REALTOR.ca.

    Agent represented buyers are usually set up on auto notification through our local MLS board. During any open houses most attendees indicate they were aware of the open house from the public comments portion of the listing on REALTOR.ca and I can't even think of a buyer who, until having decided to work with me or another agent, did not use REALTOR.ca in some form or another.

    I can also say that a lot of my out of town buyers and buyers outside my referral database and marketing area are a direct result of my listings on REALTOR.ca especially unknown clients moving back from overseas.

    • Amanda

      What area are you in? Sounds like it's a crazy busy one with all those leads coming in!

    • Kenny

      I think that if the average agent is doing 4-5 deals a year I'm doing really well

    • Carolyne L

      I am thirty years in the business, and I can honestly say I don't recall ever having a lead from CREA, no matter what the system was called regarding MLS. And in the productive years I carried 14-24 listings rotating at all times.

      So they were there for the picking. The public did regularly complain that they found searching the "system" difficult and useless, particularly people moving in from out of town.

      My business came from flyers/brochures, sign calls, only an occasional ad call, and mostly from referrals from past clients and the fact that my name was "everywhere" visible in my trading area, regularly, so I became "the one to call."

      I really did think that all REALTORS(r) used the CREA system. WRONG! It was only a few years ago that I discovered probably a larger percentage of REALTORS(r) do not, than do. I don't know why I was so shocked to learn this, but I was.

      There are so many Boards that overlap "territories" and it has, over the years become such a "territorial" business, and so protective of local-turf, that there are days when it seems senseless to even talk about MLS. We might as well all take exclusive listings and post them on whatever website we find interesting.

      My site was one of the first up on the Net in January 1998. I did extensive presentations of my listings, and the engines picked up the info almost immediately. I have never paid a penny for SEO. And I have never "bought" leads from anyplace.

      Do you know how many agents still do not have web sites of their own, and rely entirely on "office-sites?" They don't even have personalized domain-driven email addresses.

      Many use hotmail and gmail accounts. How professional does that appear to the public? And, still others id themselves as email joe@whatever – company he works at, only to learn when he leaves that company, he cannot even unlock his email, that is then redirected by management to keep him from getting his own leads.

      Sadly, many REALTORS(r) don't think like "business-people" at all. It's all about promoting yourself and your area of expertise while promoting the properties you have under contract (but the contract typically is owned by the corporation, not by the sales rep). Guess how many in the business do not even know this…

      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

  • A Calgary Realtor

    In my experience, holding back information is not the best way to go in any way shape or form. Making information open and easy to the public can only help our industry as a whole. It keeps agents more honest and it allows consumers to be involved right up until the time when they feel ready to make that move. It keeps people in the game. Hoarding of information in (in my opinion) the biggest detriment to our industry, and let's not forget, our jobs are to sell homes. If you want to be in a job where you don't have client/agent obligations but rather just sales, get into a different commissioned sales job.

    Further to this, most agents run their own idx or vow driven website like mine at http://www.calgary-real-estate.com Should we terminate the ability for individual agents to display listings as well?

    • Kris Kewley

      I agree that holding back information is not the best way to do business, but we aren't currently holding back or hiding anything. Through realtor.ca all of the information is current and accurate, and it should be kept as the only 'go to' site……..a site that we pay for. Why would you want to attract someone to a third party site that also advertises private sales? With today's technology it has become easier and easier for the consumer to go around us…..we basically show them how to.

  • GP

    I have been a Licensed Realtor since 1986 and have witnessed a gradual dilution of integrity and professionalism since then. I have seen it diminished by realtors painting their vehicles that look like Hot dog vendors or Molly Maid and Pink lady advertising their services. I have seen balloons scattered across the front lawn with Mickey Mouse characters posted . I trust that most of us would never walk into a doctor, a lawyer or even a message therapists office if they advertised their services in that manner.
    My point is we continue to dilute our image to the public and wonder why the competition board ruled in Joe Blows favor.

    The cat now is out of the bag and the only way we can re-establish our industry is to stop giving away the tools that are exclusive to our industry and also stop acting like we are a 3 ring circus!

    • Lou Piriano, Broker

      I have been doing this since 1973 and you're right that those are not professional images but that ship has sailed and its not coming back. The CB logic is that a part timer selling a house a year (with or without balloons) and all is potentially competent as those working full time. I disagree about giving away the tools. I think we should be the go to place for sold info as well because as sure as the CB hates our industry another entity will do it and already is in some places. Our value has to be in convincing the public that we are the ones to interpret the data being provided. We can get stock quotes all day long but do we really know what to do with that info? Same for property values and laws which in my mind are much more complicated than a given stock.

  • Kelley Skar

    Realtor.ca is a REALTORS best lead generating tool? Yikes! For the authors, and many of the people that have commented here, sake I hope not. I have been in the business now 5 years and can count on one hand the number of 'leads' I received from said site.

    I do agree with the author that sending the same generic information to these sites will not set us apart from our competition. That is why I will continue to syndicate to the 10 other sites that I do as well as focussing on SEO on my websites to generate traffic and showings for my clients.

    The MLS book is dead, the 90's are twenty years past, get in the hear and now and focus on where the eyeballs are….it's called the Internet.

  • Lou Piriano, Broker

    The US market is not Canada but……….look at what the NAR through their wholly owned REALTOR.COM is doing for their members. They are determined to make it the #1 consumer destination. Maybe CREA members don't get it. CREA wants others to develop web sites to supplant Realtor.ca
    This is the concept put forth at the Oakville Board meeting on the DDF by Gary Zelapa JR , director at large CREA. He specifically said they want the "Steve Jobs" of the world to come forth and present the data in some brilliant way. That tells you that CREA's site is dead in the water. it could have been #1 going forth. Kiss your $millions spent goodbye folks.

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    No FSBO's allowed
    Not a penny from NAR dues
    Real Prices from Real Professionals, not automated mechanized estimates .

    • Amanda

      As I understand, NAR no longer runs REALTOR.com, a company called Move, Inc. does. Here's their website: http://www.move.com/company/corporateinfo.aspx?so…

    • Rod Thompson

      Lou the difference between perception and reality is fear and that can create a lot of headache and controversy, so the information you provide I hope will help others better understand the changes going on. What CREA is guilty of is not communicating this effectively to the membership and I hope they do a better job in the future.

      Rod Thompson, Founder
      SellerInvite.com

    • Chad McBain

      Sorry Lou but NAR has not owned Realtor.com in years, MoveInc. owns it. They are a "FOR PROFIT" company that is traded on the NASDAQ! Realtor.com is no different then Zillow or Trulia and could care less about Realtors other then getting into an agents wallet. Stop drinking the cool aid and get in the game….you are about to get the same treatment hear in good old Canada if people like you don't wake up. You are not alone Lou by any stretch, but I fear that without a greater awareness you may just be part of the problem not the solution of which which I get the feeling you hope to be.

    • Lou Piriano, Broker

      Hey Chad…As I understand NAR owns Realtor.com and has engaged Move Inc to manage it. And yes , what a concept, those who use it, pay for it. There is no free CREA lunch. We all pay through dues. The Yankees has got this one right. The only flaw is that Zillow and Trulia do it better. That could have been Realtor.com and Realtor.ca

  • RIck Allenberg

    This discussion has played out before yet it never takes place at a national grassroots Realtor level. All that counts at CREA is the pension package. You summed it up in a rather interesting way, just got to hope for some type of democratic awakening "or miracle".
    Any business person understands that you don't selling off the secret herbs and spices.

  • Jim Marshall

    I really don't understand the argument which goes along the lines that "CREA is giving away our data".

    All that DDF does is gives brokerages and their sales people another marketing option, and they have the option to use is or not use it. Listing syndication has been available through larger boards for years and now is available to all boards, including small boards like the two I belong to.

    Twenty years ago, I "gave" newspapers like the Toronto Star information for advertising purposes (typically at a great cost and usually ineffective) and in 2012, we can submit ads through DDF to real estate websites who sign data sharing agreements.

    I really don't see what the big deal is, folks. If you feel so strongly against it, then don't participate, or even better, get involved in your local, provincial or national organizations and make your views know there.

    Jim

  • B Allan

    Our problem is we allowed crea to take our information and use it for lead generation. No profession would go this course, but salespeople would – and that's all we are to the public when we started using realtor.ca. Our board's MLS systems were a professional tool that distinguished us from everyone else. Using the internet (realtor.ca) as a lead generation tool for an entire industry dilutes our ability to convey to the consumer our importance in the transaction of real estate. The damage is done and there is nothing we as an industry can do because we cannot agree on anything. Ideally, I would want to belong to a professional organization that gives me the tools to service my clients and not an organization that decides on how i market myself (thru crea's ridiculous ads) to my clients or how i market my listings (realtor.ca). I do my job as a realtor the way that best suits my clients, CREA only gets in the way of me doing my job. i don't need lead generation, I don't need promoted or marketed. That is my job. crea should have a site that promotes realtors not their listings. Last time i checked that was what a professional organization does – promotes their people!

    • Jane

      I totally agree. These days, because of our realtor.ca which is free to every one and for all info, the public do not think the necessity to use realtors since they can get the same info from there and what a role a realtor plays then?

    • GP

      Nicely Put!!!!…..So simple but no one seems to gets it. The saying goes…. The grass always seems to be greener on the other side of the fence but the fact is We stopped watering our side of the fence!

  • Ali Bolourchi

    I am 100% with stopping the Realtor.ca, why?
    As a Realtor we are in marketing business that is marketing ourselves and our services. If you agree with this, where does a mega marketer web site such as Realtor.ca stands? It stands in our way.
    Even if you are a successful listing agent, the purpose of marketing your listing is to get more prospects, isn't it?
    So, why should we pay for a service which is entirely useless and in reality puts Realtors in harms way.
    We should let the Realtors chose how to advertise their listings, with a third party or on their exclusive web site.
    If I am spending in advertising money, I prefer to have prospects to see similar homes and properties on my web site, which is hosted by a third party rather than realtor.ca.
    This is what property gs and for sale by owners people don't understand, we are not in the business to sell that one property that we listed last night, we are marketing our services.

    • Rod Thompson

      You have the option Ali to not put your home onto the MLS System and market it exclsively yourself and if your sellers feels there's a benefit then it shouldn't be an issue.

    • Larry Estabrooks

      Ali, may I say that I am in favour of and support REALTOR.ca. I have active listings advertised on REALTOR.ca. Out of curiosity I looked for some active listings under your name. I found none. I assume that REALTOR.ca must be working 100% for you.

    • stewart henderson

      Sorry, Ali, but I think you got it wrong. The purpose of marketing your listing is to get it sold. That's what your client is expecting you to do and that's what your client is paying you to do.

  • Kris Kewley

    Vito, thank you for taking the time to write a well thought out letter to address your concerns with the DDF………I couldn't agree with you more.

    From the explanation that I received at a DDF information session, the system was created because some Realtors were advertising their listings on third party sights and not keeping the information accurate. Instead of cracking down on the individual Realtors that were breaking the rules, CREA creates this massive program (which I'm sure cost millions), to correct the problem. That's like putting 10 band aids on a paper cut.

    I'm all for the old saying 'work smarter, not harder', but we are in a service industry that requires us to 'work harder, and smarter'. I get the sense that some realtors just want to click the mouse a few times, put their feet up, and hope for the best.

    During the information session, a great question arose "what happens in a couple of years when the number of visitors to realtor.ca declines drastically?" The answer from a CREA rep was alarming – "if the number of visitors to realtor.ca starts to decline, we will spend money on the sight to correct the problem then." I know that realtor.ca could use a little tweaking, but it is the number one destination for the public to search for homes……….why encourage people to look anywhere else. Instead of spending the money to create the DDF, CREA could have invested in realtor.ca.

    Kris Kewley,
    Broker of Record
    St. Thomas Town & Country Realty Inc.

    • Ali Bolourchi

      Hi Kris,
      I don't agree with you, why?
      I am all for having control over my marketing spending. I am sure you do agree with me that we are in the business of marketing not selling properties. That is why we as realtors having problems with realtor.ca.
      It took control away from us and put us in harms way.
      We need to be able to seek and find ways to advertise and locate our next buyer and seller with our smart advertising.
      Realtor.ca was developed to help public locate houses, now it is competingh with my and your hard earned money.
      Do we hold open houses to sell that one house? We don't. So why is this any different?
      I am all for third party services and I want to see boards to delay posting listings on realtor.ca so we can do our business, which is marketing ourselves.
      Regards,
      Ali Bolourchi
      Re/Max Realtron

    • PED

      Ali, are really in the business to generate leads, market houses and not sell them?

      If so, why on earth would sellers want to use any of our services if they can market their own property via a site a massive 3rd party site that eventually will allow private sellers to post their own listings?

      I understood when I signed on for this profession that the major responsibility I took on was to represent a client in the purchase and or sale of their home and to ensure they were given the best level of protection our training allows to protect their interests. With that of course comes the requirement to market our listings to their advantage. I take that role seriously and market that aspect of my service first where marketing a property to attract every buyer possible is but one function.

      No wonder the industry is as divided as it is when one person with a hairbrained marketing ploy declares that only listing through the MLS Systems will sell a property, until it's parrotted by everyone and the next thing you know – fsbos are now on realtor.ca, consumers say, 'cool we don't need REALTORS anymore' and the industry can no longer defend their real reason for being.

      Read this carefully if you truly believe that our job is to just market properties they are two real discussions from a consumer site:

      Q: Is there any advantage of representing yourself as a buyer for a house and cutting out the realtor?

      A: Go to the listing agent and ask for 2.5% reduction in listing price. He gets his 1% from seller and you save 2.5%. Your agent is anyway useless as all work is done by lawyer.

      A: You are paying a higher price for the house from which the seller gives to both agents. You have room to negotiate because the seller would not have to pay your agent since you are representing yourself.

      A: You will need to contact the realtor yourself, tell him you are not represented by anyone, and want to arrange a showing…you can tell the listing agent you will agree to use him as the buying agent for a 1% commission, and immediately reduce the price by 1.5%…To the agent this is basically money for nothing, as they didn't do any work actually showing you other places and will just help you with paperwork. And what agent wouldnt want an extra 1% on a sale as opposed to seeing 2.5% go to some other random agent? The seller shouldn't care since he gets his final take-home price either way.

      2) someone decided to give a TEAM (note more than 1) who advertise their discount services on the site a boost and stated:

      "I looked at several places and ended up going with ——-because it was only $99 to list on mls.ca….I grilled him about why they do this, and he said they get a pretty good conversion rate to full-service listings, which makes sense. I was not going to be one of those people though- I was either going to sell it or continue to rent it.

      **Which he did but it seems at far less than he wanted to. When asked why the cost was so cheap and how does the seller know the rep isn't taking the leads the mere lister chimed in:

      "We value our reputation more than anything and would never tarnish it for a few measly bucks…. what we've seen is folks listing for the area average commission, ie. 2.25% or 2.5% and then when the buyer agents bring their clients to the table for serious negotiations, the agents have dropped their commission to 2% and in one case even 1.75%…

      not a single "private" buyer, even for our own listings has ever stepped up to work with us…The only 'leads' we get out of these $99 listings are referrals for more listings. The real leads come from our $1XXX full svc listings

      Seriously then, an admitted bait and switch falls flat, and this is what marketing our service as marketers results in, business as nothing but marketers and not as trained and qualified negotiators or agents of fiduciary duty.

      Why even bother training REALTORS then when that training is going to be left at the college's door?

    • Rod Thompson

      I have to ask Ali, is this the script you use with yur clients? If yes what's their response and if no, are you then being dishonest with them and actIng only in your best interests?

  • John in Edmonton

    I suspect that the DDF is a strategy in a much larger move on the part of CREA.

    If you recall from 12 years ago when mls.ca went live, there was a lot of controversy that CREA shouldn't be getting into the advertising business at all and mls.ca should never have been created. I'm not here to say either way if it was a good idea.

    But The Competition Bureau (GOODBYE MELANIE! YOU WON'T BE MISSED!!) has been attacking CREA and organized real estate for 3 years now, largely because of the strength of realtor.ca (formerly mls.ca).

    The VP of RE/MAX Western made some bold statements going into the CREA AGM, basically stating that realtor.ca needs to either be closed or be sold to a private company.

    I suspect that the DDF is in preparation for exactly that, a real estate landscape where CREA doesn't own realtor.ca and there are other competing sites. This should keep the competition bureau happy.

    The DDF would still give CREA the power to control most of the data, keep it accurate, and ensure it's proper and fair usage without having to own/run realtor.ca

    So while I think there will always be REALTORS working to get around the DDF, and that's fine, the goal of the DDF isn't total control of everything, but rather to prepare for a time when CREA will be out of the advertising game.

    • Ali Bolourchi

      Love this, CREA should not compete with Realtors, and with their money.

    • Amanda

      John – that's a very interesting take on the situation. I think you could be on to something here. That's the road the US headed down and it was a bad one for them. Many brokerages are now pulling out of all third-party advertising and only advertising on their own websites. We could be faced with the same thing…

  • Dave Vogel

    I agree with any who think diluting the power of our realtor.ca site is purely stupid…If we give our data away to third party sites, and drive customers away from realtor.ca…we are indeed stupid…improve the site we should…allow other sites to offer competitive information…stupid…I also agree that CREA has lost a real vision for our industry, buckling to any demands put to it…either by the Competition Bureau…or private interests…time we had some backbone…

    • Ali Bolourchi

      Dave,
      I am in control when I use third party.
      Realtor.ca is competing with me as a realtor with my own money, for what to get sued?

  • Terry LeClair

    Here's the real problem folks. The consumer is demanding more so third party websites/companies see an opportunity…why. Because as an industry (sorry to paint us all with the same brush) we have been lazy (probably not the ones even reading these posts). We expect a Seller to be happy with paying 5% +/- for selling their home…a sign to be placed on their front lawn, a one paragraph description to be placed on MLS.ca and a hand full of crappy photos to be taken as a value proposition or effective marketing strategy. So to offset all of this we (and the consumer) feel that the content needs to be visible to more people thru more portals…we all (again generalizing) think that that will make our clients happy and the online consumer more engaged…wrong!
    What needs to happen is that we all realize that MLS.ca is not a great experience for the consumer and when the third parties get the SAME information it again won't be a great experience either …so we need to embrace the fact that there is an opportunity right in front of us.
    If it takes you 30 minutes to broker load a listing and post all the photos etc on your MLS do you think there is a better chance of engaging the online Buyer more if you spent 1 hour on each listing and spent the extra 30 minutes enhancing the experience on your own website? There's the opportunity…get people to YOUR website. Now some of you may be reading this and bitching that you work too hard already and double data entry takes to long blah blah blah …I have heard it all. Folks remember we make in most cases $4000+ dollars for a listing sale! Most people would be ecstatic to work a month for that and we complain about an extra 30-60 minutes of data entry, video taping or feature sheet design?? Crazy! I totally agree with Vito and believe we need to be the ones providing the enhanced consumer experience, we need to be the ones who 'earn' our commission dollars, we need to stop letting third party companies and new business models take business away from us and we do this by embracing the fact that MLS.ca gives us the ability to show our clients how much more 'we' can do for them in our environment/website.

    Terry LeClair
    Broker
    Century 21 BJ Roth Realty
    CEO
    RealtySites PLUS

    • Carolyne L

      As a REALTOR(r), have you ever moved from one MLS jurisdiction to another? Well, after having lived in my MLS area for more than 25 yrs., I moved to an adjacent city within a twenty minute drive of prior location. I would continue to trade in my normal area, and add some local business as I grew to know the area.

      I was totally shocked to learn that the local MLS Board mostly did not submit their listings to realtor.ca. In fact, they control them mostly from their own Board, and their own Board only.

      I had a ton of trouble trying to find houses to view, and on top of it when I called agents on signs or local newspaper ads, once they found out I was an agent, they mostly did not return calls. Upon investigating further, I discovered that is the norm.

      Only a handful of agents showed up at my agent open house, on a local listing, even so the city is inundated with open houses both for agents and the public. Those who did, criticized that I had the listing on TREB and on realtor.ca – saying – oh, most of us don't do that. It costs money. You need to join the local Board (located far to the west of where I would ever be working)…WHATEVER!

      That particular listing was sold for full price by a local agent who had outrightly refused to show it to her client. Her client came to my open house (I hadn't had open houses in many many years), and indicated strongly that she wanted to buy this house.

      She was unrepresented. No BBA. Said she didn't have an agent, but indicated that her house had just sold and the closing on this one was perfect. I could have signed her up right then and there. But I didn't. I called the agent who sold her listing and told her that her seller wanted to buy my listing. If agent still refused, I would have double-dipped it, because I could not take a chance on my seller losing out.

      Long story short, as offered on the TREB listing, the co-op got paid more than she usually would have got locally. She never showed the house, but did type an offer. Seller insisted she be there for the inspection and she got very angry but did appear. She didn't understand why the seller was paying her to attend the inspection. It's too long a story to tell here.

      This is how our industry works, folks. Lots of jealousy. Lots of non-cooperation among colleagues. It's not that they don't like each other, they just want to run their own show and have their own complete control.

      Right down to refusing to show listings to would-be buyers who really want to buy. The buyer had a fight with the agent, she wanted to buy my listing so badly. It had only been on the market a few days – and had two offers, one COS accepted – got bumped by the agent who had refused to show – that I called and said: TYPE AN OFFER FOR THIS BUYER!

      How can we ever solve THESE problems? This is one of the top producers in the city behaving in this manner, but certainly not the only one. No names, no pack drill as they say in the army.

      But this is just one of the "information-sharing" attitudinal problems in the industry. Here, Boards control the MLS information and merely submit it "wherever."

      There's no mandatory rules and regs saying where listings must be submitted. It's like hoarding listings and hoping the house will sell from the sign, an open house, or within an office strucuture.

      How can we solve DDF and/or realtor.ca or TREB issues, when the root cause first needs to be addressed? In my opinion, we need ONE MLS SYSTEM, not fragmented ones that are individually BOARD CONTROLLED, by members who are not members of OTHER BOARDS.

      Costs are high enough already without having to be members of multiple boards in order to access information. We have an internal system within TREB, called CONNECT. It is mostly wonderful, but teeth had to be pulled to get it up and operating, and if you ask most agents still after a couple of years of operating, they have no clue it even exists.

      It is still full of holes but better than nothing. To get the full information you still need the listing office to co-operate (and often they won't/don't).

      So there you have it. The root of the problem (I think.) Everyone in the Province of Ontario is "afraid" that TREB wants control. Well, maybe it's time for that to happen??? Somebody has got to drive this bus ! It's like the line in the book: I think it was a Tale of Two Cities – "he got up on his horse and went off in all directions."

      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

    • Brian Martindale

      Hi Carolyne:

      Re your last line…

      "he got up on his horse and went off in all directions."

      …should become…

      "They got up off their asses and went off in a unified direction."

      …being an excerpt from the new Realtor's must-read…

      The Failure of Toothless CREAtivities

      A bit of a stretch, I know, but just as sad as the real thing.

      Brian

    • Chris Bone

      The problem is we PAY big money for Realtor.ca to be a positive consumer experience, which it isn't. The mapping facility lumps MLS and FSBO listings all together creating a lot of confusion and animosity in the marketplace. It's not easy telling your client that if you show them a FSBO and they buy it, somebody owes you 2.5% commission, and it might be them. It's mandatory we pay for Realtor.ca as such we feel compelled to use it, because there is no cost savings in not using it. You can't opt out of that portion of your fees and go it alone on your own websites. Additionally we feel we are doing a disservice to our clients in not posting on Realtor.ca. it's a catch 22.

    • Dave

      To Chris Bone – So Chris are you one of the many agents that inform buyers that your services are FREE! Prior to working with any buyer client you should be discussing what it is going to cost them for your services. It is amazing how many REALTORS advertise to buyers that their is no cost for their services or it is FREE. If you have informed your buyers upfront about your services and fees there will be no problem when it comes to showing a FSBO. Most REALTORS seem to have trouble talking to buyers about the cost of their services and rely on the listing agent to establish what they will be paid.

    • Carolyne L

      Dave (to Chris Bone) Aug. 4.12

      Watch for forthcoming copy Jim is going to post, on this very topic. If you did a poll across the country, how many agents would say they use BBA contracts? (or not); how many work for an office that says "they must, or they won't be paid?" how many provinces have a position in place, like reco wherein a problem will not be addressed unless there is a BBA in place? Yet it is taught that the public cannot be forced to sign a BBA contract. Isn't that an oxymoron, in its own right?

      We push so many wagons uphill continually. Conflicting office rules (between and among interrelating offices), board rules, municipal rules and regs, provincial rules and regs, and of course we mustn't forget the feds, whose chief cook and bottle washer, Ms. A, apparently saw the light and realized that unless you have "worked the road," it's hard to tell exactly where construction holes have to be filled with sticky tar compounds.

      Hmmmm… WHO'S THE BOSS where you practice your income generating trade? Let's get something straight at least. It isn't "you." It isn't "us." It isn't even the public, for whom and with whom we "work."

      Yes, folks, it's a "real job," contrary to what some seem to think. If you worked a 40-hr wk typical old-fashioned "job," would you not expect a payck to arrive, automatically? or would you offer your services to your corporation FOR FREE?

      What's with that, in our industry? You are not being paid, typically, for the "hours" you put into any transaction, earning thousands of dollars for a few hours of your time; you are being paid for your skills, knowledge and power to get the job done, done right, right away. Of course, only each one of us, individually, knows what exactly it is, by definition, that we bring TO THE TABLE. As so it should be.

      So, whether it is Chris or others offering their services for free, that, too, is their personal choice. Best they should explain themselves in writing, though. Dave, of course you know – that's part of the make-up of the common market, industry-driven apparatus. We don't work with derivatives. This is not commodities-trading. Our industry is a world of its own.

      Let's hope that all the current contraversy in play will, at best, provide some clear (cross-country) guidelines to be implemented. The total fragmentation must be synchronized.

      With respect
      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

    • Dave

      Carolyne, I would guess that less than 5% of REALTORS negotiate a fee with buyers and have signed BBA. Since the listing agents set the fees for the BA most REALTORS just accept the fact that their fellow listing agents will do their best to pay the BA what is considered the going rate. I expect if the BA had to negotiate their own fees with their clients fees would go down significantly. It is in the best interests of large brokerages to keep the BA fee as high as possible to keep the BA in their offices satisfied. We will not have TRUE competition in our industry until this issue is solved as long as buyers believe their services are FREE. Perhaps the competition bureau focused their attention on the wrong issue. Mere posts and FSBO on the MLS are really a non issue if REALTORS understand agency. Unfortunately only about 5% do.

    • Carolyne L

      Even I am shocked to read your guesstimate, Dave. WOW! That's even lower than I could have imagined. Wish someone would join this conversation.

      Can we ask readers the question(s):

      Do you get a BBA contract signed?

      Is it your company policy to insist you get a BBA contract signed? or they don't care one way or another… it's ALL up to you… ?

      As soon as possible? or only when you "find the right house" for the buyer?

      Do you fill in the blank that asks how much you will be paid, by saying "whatever it says on the listing?" or do you fill in a specific amount?

      If it says on the listing, $1. to be paid to the co-op, do you accept that? Or do you try to negotiate with the listing's seller or the listing agent, direct?

      Do you have a basic amount, less than 'x', that you will not agree to? (Don't state the amount here – just say yes or no.)

      Just some thoughts to ponder, perhaps.

      Yes, Dave, I believe you are correct, regarding the CB. Point well-taken, that once again proves Ms. A did not understand the real estate business at all.

      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

    • Carolyne L

      Dave to Chris Bone et al – and FSBO's.

      Why does the site called "For Sale by Owner dot ca" need to have set up a site to recruit REALTORS(r)? and physically pay REM to run ads on the REM site and in print newspaper soliciting REALTORS(r) to join their site in order to generate leads?

      Of course just a smart way for For Sale by Owner to generate more income for their bottom line. But at least the ad speaks to the truth about selling privately. Most in the end, having already shelled out cash, need to "pay again," by hiring a real REALTOR(r).

      What is it that I am not understanding? Are they saying that For Sale by Owner doesn't work, and in the end when the fees the public pays to them doesn't produce a sale, the For Sale by Owner folks are going to RECOMMEND a REALTOR(r)? from their list of "chosen" reps who joined "their team of professionals?"

      This just speaks VOLUMES! Perhaps print out their ad and carry it with you on listing presentations? Just a thought if "they" are your competition, this should help make it REALLY easy for you??? Even THEY need the help of a real live REALTOR(r).

      Hmmmm…. maybe I just don't understand the process well enough. Less than 60% of properties sell, even when they are listed with a REALTOR? the first time around. I'm sure the FSBO sites quote those numbers also (at least that used to be the number, don't know what current stats say).

      So perhaps this "ad" they are running currently, proves that For Sale by Owner suffers from the same malady? and in the end, more often than not, a private seller lists – and then the house eventually sells.

      Happened in my town, and when "the FSBO listed" after several months passed by, trying to sell privately with plenty of action but no sale … the property then actually sold in days, netting the listing rep two more listings near that house 'cause the house sold SO FAST (skews the stats royally).

      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

  • John Lagakos

    Seriously Gil Szabo?!? "To slam an innovative initiative such as the DDF would be akin to someone slamming the internet twenty years ago." I think not. DDF is no massive milestone like the internet. It's merely one of many options CREA has.

    CREA needs tech-savvy staff who can aggressively and confidently create it's OWN dynamic site. The solution to realtor.ca's shotcomings is not to give it all away to private corps who will then profit from it. The solution is for CREA to invest in great programmers and to do themselves.

    The real problem is you have a bunch of old-school Realtors at the helm over at CREA who have yet to realize they now own an internet comapany. They need to hire people who understand how to capitalize on the data they have not to give it all away 'cause they are confused and afraid to compete with all the companies chomping at their heels. NO internet-savvy executive would ever give away the data CREA has if they were running the show!

  • John Daniel Colwell

    I agree for the most part that third party site should no longer be. But neither should REALTOR.CA I thought OUR MLS system is the site we have the most accurate data. Then lets stop sending it anywhere and retain the integrity of the MLS with our members. We built it and we paid and still pay for it. The revenue shold be ours and no one elses.

    ITS ABOUT TIME REALTORS TAKE BACK THE CONTROL THEY ONCE HAD AND STOP GIVING IT AWAY TO ANYONE BUT OUR MEMBERS.

    • GP

      Well Said my Friend!

  • Gil Szabo

    This letter is short sighted to say the least. I track every single dollar I spend in my marketing and can tell you at the end of each year exactly where each and every transaction came from, how much my marketing cost to generate that business and what my ROI is. I have found over the years I get exactly what I paid for in every marketing campaign I implemented and in the case of Realtor.ca, it is little or nothing.
    Sometimes change is difficult. Learning new things can be time consuming and taxing on our brains. IDX and the DDF are so simple even a Realtor could use them. We should be grateful that our forefathers learned to walk upright, built houses, and became civilized. Otherwise we would be out of a career. Once the nay sayers get their minds around the DDF they too will be huge proponents.
    To suggest that Realtor.ca is the best lead generator is sadly ignorant. I know beyond any reasonable doubt that the DDF and IDX will add tremendously to the bottom line of each and every realtor who choses to use and endores it. To slam an innovative initiative such as the DDF would be akin to someone slamming the internet twenty years ago.
    This is unquestionably the best thing CREA has done since going on the WWW!

    • John in Edmonton

      Sadly, it IS the best lead generation tool for many REALTORS. Which is why so few of us make any money. For agents like you Gil, and myself, the benefits of realtor.ca are akin to "floor duty" from the 80's. Not something you should base your business on if you want to be successful.

  • Jim Straughan

    Shane
    The Issue is not whether the data isn't going or is going to be shared, rather how it's going to be shared.
    For the most part I agree with Vito.
    To maintain professionalism in real estate the practitioners require financial enumeration and a specialized service to offer .
    if anyone from the public thinks a bunch of random websites not backed up by a professional realtor is going to give them better service and reliable information it is they who are living in a dream world.
    More exposure isn't always better if it isn't based on professionalism , ethical guidelines and factual information.

    Jim Straughan Broker
    REALTY EXECUTIVES ELITE LTD., BROKERAGE
    INDEPENDENTLY OWNED & OPERATED
    http://www.straughan.ca

  • John Lagakos

    Could you ever imagine ebay giving craigslist access and use of all of it's user's postings? That would never happen. CREA's stratgey is absolutely ridiculous and CREA seems to believe it's goal is to derive profit by selling off member info.

  • Anita

    What I don't understand is how View Point has all the information on all the MLS listings and more. More people use that site because it is more computer friendly with alot more information. Not only is the public using the site to view homes and get info but now you can also pay a mere $1 to post your home on MLS with a realtor and what do we pay has realtors well lets just say more than a $1. Its not right, we should only have to pay a $1.00 for each listing we put on MLS too. It is time to improve the system.

  • Peter Pfann

    the statement that realtor.ca is the best lead generating site for real estate is nonesense, and recipricity should be implemented sooner rather than later, but it should be at the board level or even at the agency level.

    the Notion that CREA controls our listing is just wrong, and they will use this control for their own financial gain rather than for the imprevement of the industry

  • Bob Van de Vrande

    CREA and local real estate boards would serve us better by ensuring that the MLS data is accurate – namely timely reporting of conditional and firm sales. This seems to be getting worse, not better over time and boards seem reluctant to address this issue.

    Realtor.ca could be a spectacular site for consumers and salespeople alike if the appropriate resources were spent on it. The idea of splitting it into a separate entity/company is great and I look forward to the day that occurs.

    Why would the buying public be interested in a site that has only a sub-set of the listings while realtor.ca is the most comprehensive real estate site in the country. We built it, spent millions on it and now we are actively working on driving traffic to othter sites. This does not make sense to me.

    If we do it properly, realtor.ca could also become the basis for provincial and national databases for the use of realtors. Imagine a provincial MLS without duplication which would eliminate the need to search three or four local MLS databases in order to do CMA's and search for properties on behalf of buyers. I believe we need to change our focus and do what makes sense for realtors? Any thoughts?

  • Kenny

    I agree with Shane. REALTOR.ca is a terriable user experiance. The basis that it is the number one site for real estate in Canada is due to the fact that up unitl now there were no other choices for consumers. And that is the basis of the problem we now have.

    I think CREA had an excellent opportunity for ongoing refinement and improvement as online consumers wanted greater detail and a more user friendly experiance when visiting the site, however nothing was done. Ever try searching for a property on it? Why only 10 photo's? etc…

    I agree with accuracy of information and all the other arguments againest listing syndication etc…but when compared to the user experiance a consumer can obtain from the likes of OBEO and VitrualListings that an agent can buy for their listing for about $100.00, REALTOR.ca is a joke.

    It reminds me of the American Automotive Industry back in the 70's & 80's. The import car market was seen as a joke and the cars were considered sub-standard (for the younger agents out there, look at Hyundi as compared to a few years ago) and that consumers would easily return. Well it never happened and a few almost went bankrupt. As the imports continually improved their quality and increased market share, the America Auto Manufactuers began requesting governments to impose tariffs and duties so that they could compete with imports in terms of price until they themselves could catch up in quality. Well look where they are today, almost 30 yrs later, from a market share of over 70% to a mere 30% combined.

    If CREA could see the potential we have in REALTOR.ca and work with REALTORS to make improvements rather than just throw their hands in the air, implement DDF and say this is all we can do because we ourselves lack vision and leadership, and simply want to give up and give it all away for someone else to handle, REALTOR.ca could be the consumers number one choice because they want it, because they want to use it, not because of imposed restrictions. We are relevant today because we are relevant, and if we can get the information out to the clients (buyers) in a user friendly format through REALTOR.ca, then there would no need for DDF by choice rather than by restrictions and our hard earn efforts and information would not been seen as giving the informtaion away for free but again be seen as a valuable resource in marketing a property and the buyers number one choice because of ease of use and accuracy of information.

  • Greg

    Vito, you are right… that is if organized real estate was not broken at it's very core. If you are to have a strong "association" you cannot play one foot in, on foot out – it's all or none.

    Organized real estate has been playing one foot in, on foot out on the protection of their data and rules for too long and the industry is permanently broken.

    Newer agents don't believe in the power of MLS… I started in 2005 – so I fall in this "demographic". Shane's dinosaur comment shows this idiot mentality. I would challenge Shane to count up the percentage of this sales that were not double ended. After he does that he should STFU and give MLS the respect it deserves because he's not all powerful as his statement indicates he thinks he is.

    If Vito is a dinosaur, Shane is the baby who still requires diapers or he'll make a mess all over the place. Give your head a shake and do the math Shane. You put all your focus on double ending things… everyone does – all the advertising dollars… but in the end, co-operation still makes up 70+% of the action.

    Cheers Vito, I think you're actually right – MLS was good in it's heyday.

  • Rita Giglione

    Realtor.ca will always be the go to to site for consumers.
    The information it provides consumers is complete and accurate through regulation.
    That is it's strength, and there will always be other fractured incomplete, and filtered sites.
    We should be PROMOTING our Realtor.ca site and continue to ENHANCE it.
    If consumers want complete and accurate information, then they can got to Realtor.ca and call a Realtor.
    If consumers want incomplete and fractured and filtered information, then they can go to 3rd party sites.

    • Bob Van de Vrande

      Realtor.ca will only be the go to site in the future if:
      1) we stop fracturing the information the way we have been doing;
      2) we make the site more consumer friendly and useful

    • John in Edmonton

      realtor.com used to be the go-to site in the USA, but now sites like Zillow and Trulia have popped up to provide a richer user experience that consumers prefer.
      Today sites like zoocassa.ca and point2homes.com are becoming strong competitors to realtor.ca. The competition is here.
      The question is, should we compete? Is that CREA's mandate to compete?

    • Rita Giglione

      Quite honestly, as a Realtor I understand the deminished value of 3rd party sites.
      Let's start promoting Realtor.ca to Consumers, and forget about the inferior and tampered 3rd party sites.

    • Rod Thompson

      REALTOR.ca combined with an experienced and ethical REALTOR is the most powerful selling tool in the world.

      Absolutely! Those other sites are loaded with crap. REALTOR.ca is just homes, free of corporate advertising, regulated and accurate…there simply is no better marketing than a well priced home on the MLS System and Canadians know that.

      Not only that, but there is no better tool for us as industry members available to educate and guide our clients and opening it up has has only diminished our competitors websites….consumers want MLS not some marketing company who only cares to get a few hundred dollars and then wipe thier hands.

      There may be prettier sites with more options and that may appeal to some but in the end it's not selling homes and it's not taking away our business. REALTOR.ca is what CREA should be spending it's money on promoting on.

      Rod Thompson, Founder
      SellerInvite.com

  • Shane

    It's 2012. The Data will be shared. Deal with it, your time machine back to the 1990's isn't going to happen.

    Realtor.ca is a terrible website for users, it must have been designed to frustrate consumers into contacting a Realtor. Having the Data shared to other sites is the best thing CREA can do, they should expand it to more and more sites even. Isn't more exposure better if you are working in the Seller's best interests, not your own?

    • susan

      Deal with it! well we pay dues…. lets make our site Realtor.ca the best it can be. lets pull in advertising and do what we can do to make it the site to be all sites! I will not advertise a clients half dollar home on kijiji…. that is how i Deal with it!

    • Shane

      LOL. Susan admits she won't expose her clients homes to all the buyers she can by using kijiji etc.. What a dinosaur.

  • Amanda

    The sad part is that very few REALTORS actually know or understand this. There is such a heavy load of PT agents that only do the odd deal here and there; they just don't feel the weight of this issue. To the PT agent it's a FT agent issue.

  • Brian Martindale

    Hi there Vito:

    Well stated.

    The short answer to your last question vis a vis Realtor.ca and CREA is…

    "Could Realtor.ca generate enough advertising dollars to offset the cost of Realtor.ca or CREA for that matter?"

    …possibly, and definitely not, respectively.

    Re the latter; no amount of advertising revenue will be able to offset the ever-escalating destructive cost of CREA to its captive fundraisers (you all).

    CREA types now exist for themselves in a self-perpetuating cycle of tax- and-spend socialistic self-serving ideaological implementation procedures, all carried out in a most unethical, undemocratic (one vote per each of its 100,000 members?…are you kidding me!…try less-than-two-thousand-pre-arranged votes by "approved voters" per the entire membership!) underhanded manner.

    If you all let them get away with this latest boondoggle, you all will forever be their boot-wiping communal doormat., without even a hint of respect being thrown your way, into perpetuity, being CREA's perpetual free-ride on your financial backs'.

    Not nearly enough of you are rightfully pissed off enough with the CREAcrat navel-gazing theorticians in my opinion.

    Brian

    • Merv Burgard

      for one answer to getting a BBA signed – here are some answers from subscribers to my MERV'S COMMENTS MEMOS:

      “Merv: 85 % buyers agency , 10% customers , 5% nothing. That's for our Ontario office.”

      “My bet right now would be 1% or fewer transactions have buyer agency agreements. I thought the use of same would have increased with CREA's dictate of Sellers' Rights Reserved listings and now mere postings – but no evidence of more.”

      “Here I'd say less than 1% of buyers are signing buyer agency agreements. I personally believe it's time we step up and improve our service by providing the clarity these agreements provide but it's a slow process in our market area.”

      “We do not process a sale without either a buyer brokerage agreement or customer service agreement and also working with a realtor form. I would say 95% of all our Ontario office selling transactions are sold with buyer brokerage agreements. Very interesting blog.”

    • Carolyne L

      As per Merv's post:

      Can anyone define what "5% nothing" means, please…

      Also, what provinces are involved in those responses, specifically – because that holds a lot of weight in the discussionary factors?

      Real estate is local. SO LOCAL. That's just PART of the problem, likely, that the CB ran into, since of course they are the feds.

      What a circus it all turned out to be. If only part of the HR requirement for Ms. A's job, is to have been "on the road – a practicing, not just textbook smart, REALTOR(r) in recent times."

      But then again, if that WERE a requirement, it might not solve all the issues because, again – provincial rules and regs pretty much run most of the show, supported by municipal ones – and then again – the Board rules that run parallel and try to tie into all the other jurisdictional issues.

      No small wonder our industry is in such a mess. Will be interesting to see what the future brings. But one thing the public needs to understand, for sure and for certain… those of us "on the road, so to speak" do NOT make the rules – the governments do, ultimately.

      Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com

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