By Ross Kay
I am a third generation Realtor, the son of a local legend. My father is the guy people still tell stories about 30 years later. They tell of him knocking on doors in snow storms. His competitors remember when listings were tightly guarded secrets during the first couple days of the contract, and they tell of seeing the familiar silver and black LTD following their office caravans on Monday morning, knowing Allan was scribbling down the addresses and would soon be booking appointments before they could themselves.
I have been a Realtor for 24 years. During this time I have constantly heard the words “Don’t worry what others are doing, and just focus on YOUR next sale!” Initially this came from my father, a man I shared an office with for 14 years. Next from my mother, who sold real estate and took care of my Dad and her home, all at the same time. Next from my wife, who wanted to be sure the bills were paid, after she left real estate to raise our four kids. Next from my broker, who noticed my sales had declined as my focus shifted to my family demands. Finally from concerned others, who saw my concern for the real estate industry begin to occupy more and more of my time.
Realistically, for the first 18 years of my career, these were probably good words of advice. I know they served my parents well because they are living the dream retirement life, as the rarest of Realtors who could retire solely from the earnings of a 20-year sales career.
I never kept my head down too long. I never looked at being a Realtor as a job, but always as a business. Part of the reason my parents were able to retire after less than 20 years in the business was my father was able to “keep his head down and sell, sell, sell”. Somewhere around 2002, it became increasingly obvious that my fellow professionals were under such intense pressure from outside influences that as business people, if they simply kept their heads down and sold, their business model would be attacked by outsiders. Non-Realtors, seeing all the heads in the sand looking for the next sale, saw an industry ready to be taken advantage of.
Each Realtor is a member of associations, brands and brokerages that we all assumed had leaders, who we paid (in one form or another) to represent us, by them having their heads up and looking out for us. It turns out that they too had their heads down looking for the next sale, instead of looking out for us. While initially it was only outsiders who were allowed to operate without the rules and regulations we demanded of one another, the courts were working in the background at the request of government bodies to change the rules, allowing outsiders to strategically attack our profession. Why wasn’t someone watching?
We all know what has happened to our profession in the last 10 months.
The time has come for Realtors to get our heads out of the sand long enough to demand the leaders we already pay, to begin representing us. We pay CEOs, board staffs, franchisors and broker/owners massive fees to represent us. I know that last year, I paid over $25,000 in association fees alone, directly to the organizations I pay to represent me. These are not office fees or advertising expenses but the fees paid directly for the privilege of my association with them.
I ask, how is it possible the CEO of a national association, whose members have revenues of over $3 billion annually, is allowed to continue to remain employed while NOT acting in the best interests of the majority of his members?
I ask, how is it possible the CEOs of provincial and local associations, whose members have revenues ranging in the multi-millions to $1 billion dollars annually, continue to remain employed, while NOT acting in the best interests of the majority of their shareholders?
I ask, how is it possible the CEOs and owners of the major franchise brands, with earnings in the tens of millions of dollars from agent fees, continue to remain silent, inactive and non-communicative to those operating under their brands, about how to enact change in our industry by their numbers alone?
I ask, how it is possible the CEOs of the local brokerages, some of whom are paid millions of dollars annually, continue to allow our business model to be attacked, with us not carrying a powerful voice to our local associations and boards?
I ask, how do I, a Realtor, the third generation of my family in this profession, someone who respects our profession and believes it is essential to the financial health of our nation, continue to pay these CEOs over $25,000 a year of my money to assist in the dismantling of my own business?
I can hear my Dad: “Ross, get your head out of the sand!”
Ross Kay is a 24-year veteran of the real estate industry based in Burlington, Ont. As a salesman, his team’s sales placed them at the top of the industry for four consecutive years. His customers have earned over $250 million in net worth using his guidance. He introduced over a dozen new technologies to the real estate industry. He says as an Internet consultant, his knowledge of the property portal business, protection of consumers privacy online and the ability of associations to modify their operations to legally protect all members’ business models equally is unique. www.rosskay.com.
The government has to look at Comfree sellers, for starters, who are told they can keep the commission portion. Perhaps there needs to be a deemed portion, I don't know, but it is obvious in most for sale by owner postings that the commission is included in the sales price, and some is often added as well. If the seller refuses to allow a Realtor to be paid half, then the seller should be cited for being anticompetitive, fined. The government should make for sale by owners add the commission portion to their income and tax them. Realtors are taxed and have to pay GST, so sellers should have to as well – with any costs deductible – ie advertising, perhaps. Also, municipalities could benefit by making for sale by owners take out licences as those having garage sales in many places are required to do. A course such as anyone driving a boat has to take should be mandatory, as should errors and omissions insurance, if anyone would offer it – or some sort of proof should be made that the seller can be sued later, will be found. If someone is out of the province, moving there, should there be a holdback? Hard to say, but Realtors have liability insurance and sellers don't, so have to be personally sued, if they can be found. Buyers buying for sale by owner should also perhaps have to take a course because, for instance, lawyers don't cover them after a contract is written and conditions weren't properly added. There is money to be made by various departments on this for sale by owner situation. So, all citizens should be given a real estate licence of sorts at birth, then? If that is the case, perhaps all law firms should open their doors to all citizens and have to help them for free as Realtors are expected to do to buyers and sellers now. Lawyers' computers, information, the courts, should be there to help all who need information, etc. If the public doesn't need education, do Realtors need brokerages all the time or can they be freelance, going from brokerage to brokerage with an umbrella agency only covering them? Not at the moment. Either all the laws and courses and contracts and amendments and additional are required, or they are not – apparently courses not when it comes to for sale by owners. Should the public have access to all history and information covered by the Privacy Act? Do they know how to interpret all? If given a code "with supervision" there won't be supervision by many – was that way before the code. MLS needs a separate section for mere postings, and to tighten up the accessibility of some information the public is going to now access through TREB members giving their codes. Errors and omissions insurance may start looking at Realtors and what is happening and make the insurance prohibitively expensive due to the wild west actions regarding adding listings never seen – not even in the same city – with sellers representing themselves yet with listing Realtor liability. What a can of worms – what a lot of possible consequences – what a lot of costs, still, for Realtors who feel cut off and abandoned by CREA – who have wages while Realtors do not – so how much, really, do they care – or are they glad handing at the meetings with those they meet who may give them another job in the future? Either there is a real estate profession with all the required costs, or there isn't. If there is a requirement for all the courses, etc., then why can for sale by owners represent themselves without even a basic course in business law? They often don't work with lawyers until after the fact – and lawyers haven't seen homes, etc. I don't know . . . round and round it goes with independent contractors separate entities, often barely seen in brokerages who don't have meetings, with few gatherings on a large scale of Realtors to even make Realtors feel cohesive, part of anything. Much needs changing, alright – including the leadership at CREA, it seems to me – and much more to make our business more effective, more professional, not less.
Homeowner speaking of smug, I know I'm dealing with with someone who has no tolerance for what another's opinion when they accuse others of not thinking critically.
Congrats to all those who made your voices heard. I thank all for your emails yesterday and it was great to see the CREA hear our message. I know our actions are resonating through associations across Canada. We now need to step up even more before the Oct 24th CREA AGM. Please sign the petition if you agree http://www.rosskay.com/crea-petition.html
Ross, can you tell us how many Realtors have signed your petition?
Rod Thompson was certainly right when he said my post generated a lot of hostility. It was a bit surprising, given that the gist of many of the comments was how professional you are. I guess it only counts when there’s a sale or listing in the offing.
Despite the sarcasm behind Glen Santics’ post, there is truth in what he says. Why should you work and not get paid by the person who has taken up your time and benefited from your expertise? Why would you not charge someone up front to take a listing and process it and get the ball rolling? Why would you not sign up a buyer with a buyer representation agreement and make it clear that there is a fee involved for using your services? Perhaps you should start looking at charging fees for your services rather than charging a commission on a sale. It’s fairer for the seller, it’s fairer for the buyer because they know up front that they will be on the hook for a fee (admittedly they won’t be keen on paying fees until it becomes the norm) and it’s fairer for you. And you come out looking more professional.
The only argument I can imagine you can come up with would be “but that’s not the way we do it”. No, it’s not the way it’s been done before, but no one ever said that things couldn’t change. Like I’ve said ad nauseum, times are changing; you need to change, too.
If you really want to be taken seriously and be considered a professional, then start acting professionally. Who charges fees? Lawyers, accountants, architects. Who gets paid commissions? Car salesmen, shyster lawyers and furniture salesmen. Which list would you rather be on?
Actually Home Owner, your assumption about why we don't charge for our time is off the mark. I for one would much prefer to charge for my time (and/or from a menu of services with flat fees – Open House $300, MLS posting $500, etc.) but the problem is… consumers don't want it!! Why? Because they aren't used to it. Because "that's not the way we do it." And becuase they prefer to pay for results.
I've spoken to consumers about this, including some who interviewed agents who do charge up front fees. These consumers are typically incensed at the gall of the agent.
It is not just REALTORs who can't handle change.
But you are correct that many REALTORs are lazy in their approach and self-entitled in their defense. But that doesn't make the model wrong. It just means like any other job, about 10 to 15% of those practicing it are really great. It was the same ratio when I was paid a salary to develop software.
Personally, I find the mere posting model in particular to be much ado about nothing. If 100% of REALTORs adopted it, it would be the end of MLS and the Real Estate Brokerage industry, period. So it will have limited shelf life or always be a niche.
It offers substantively nothing that consumers do not already have: the ability to try to sell their house privately and advertise it on the Internet. The only difference is that the FSBO seller on MLS now is forced to encounter REALTORs working for buyers more directly and frequently than when they advertise only on pure FSBO sites.
Big deal.
I imagine there is some subset of would-be FSBOs that now represent one sided REALTOR transactions that would have been entirely private before.
Consumers either want valuable guidance, protection, hard work and marketing services from someone dedicated to helping them, and to pay for it, or they want to pay as little as posisble to get some exposure for their FSBO. That's it. Tools and methods will always change. But please, everyone, stop calling the "new models" "innovative". Nothing hurts the perception of our level of intelligence or professionalism more.
Why attack us as being unprofessional Homeowner just because we have a license/registration? Your being a non-REALTOR does not excuse your mailicious slurs made out if pure ignorance, bias and hate against our profession yet you would have us do what, walk in lock step with you as you denigrate how we conduct our business?
Sorry, none of those whom you attack represent you nor do we have to take your assault and cower because you want to now throw the 'unprofessional' adjective our way for daring to challenge your misguided notions.
For your information, Glen Santic's post wasn't exactly made in sarcasm at all. You're well behind the eight ball suggesting a fee for service since it is already being practiced and will no doubt grow in popularity. I am certain though that those like you will balk at this too for as I have stated before when buyers and sellers ask us questions that we tell them are to be directed to attorneys, many are loathe to do so because they don't wish to pay any amount of an hourly fee.
You will be no different if we all went on fee for service.
You are a cynical person with a massive dislike for REALTORS, we get that. But you also presume to know everything about what we do, how we operate, think and speak and should conduct our business ergo…
"The only argument I can imagine you can come up with would be “but that’s not the way we do it”.
So much for what you know, but let's go further with what you don't, for you have absolutely and totally annoyed me with your contrite, self-righteous attitude.
Some other commission based vocations:
Insurance brokerages
Insurance agents
Reinsurance companies
Investment consultants
Financial advisors
Mortgage brokers
Technology sales representatives
Medical equipment supplier representatives
Auto parts representatives
Airline manufacturing company representatives
Office product representatives
Office equipment representatives
Marketing representatives
Advertisment sellers
Home improvement sales representatives
Retail Sales
Wholesale manufacturing representatives
And despite your placing them in just one category there are also Lawyers.
Need I go on?
Who else gets paid commissiom
Wow.
The intolerance, hostility, smugness, rationalization and refusal to think critically that I have witnessed, especially in the last post by PED, is truly astonishing.
If you actually read and considered what I have written, you will realize that not once did I say I thought poorly of real estate salespeople (although that has certainly changed now). I put forward the idea that it was time to take your heads out of the sand and start adapting to the new realities. (If I were to start posting comments now, after reading how hostile you are to change and to opinions other than your own, I’d suggest you take your heads out of your posteriors instead.) I put forward the view that trying to maintain the status quo won’t get you very far. I suggested you stop whining about how home sellers don’t understand how little you make. I did not put you down, unless you found my suggestion that you needed to quit living in the past objectionable. I even said you were beneficial to the real estate transaction.
The negative posts have done nothing to change my opinion that it’s time for the real estate industry to change. I hope you realize that the changes that have been brought about to date have been initiated by real estate insiders – those in your own industry. They are the ones who have recognized that there are new, better, more consumer-friendly ways to operate. They are the ones who appreciate that the information age is upon us. They are the ones who will benefit while you continue to whine. There – I’ve put you down – I called you whiners.
Strangely, it is Realtor NS who said it best – it’s up to me and every home seller if we want to use the services of a real estate salesperson. He said that 95% of all real estate sales in Canada go through REALTORS®. I believe that’s true. But there are two things to consider. Until recently, there really hasn’t been much choice in Canada, so that figure may change. But, more importantly for you, if you look at the American experience, where the real estate market has been wide open for so long and the public has had more choice for a longer time, you will find that a huge percentage of sales continue to go through real estate salespeople. So what are you so afraid of?
Maybe it’s time to brush the chips off your shoulders and take a look at the future instead of the past.
Hi PED: Unfortunately, it is only dedicated Realtors like you who really care about what they do as Realtors that take the time to respond with their opinions on this forum. The others, who don't really care that much about what they do for a living, are the silent, hide-in-the-back-row types who the public steryotipically holds in its collective (grass is greener on the other side of the fence) head. No one truly knows what goes on in another's world until he/she has walked in his/her shoes, for more than a few days, with an open mind to boot.
There just is no end to some bashing campaigns; it's a group- think induced attack somewhat like the rioters in Vancouver last spring after the Stanley Cup playoff results went the wrong way.
Humans always like to jump on the bandwagon with the group that appears to be winning, especially when the group being hammered has a poor reputation to begin with. But the poor reputation of a group does not extend over and above the good reputation of an individual within that group who knows the value of what he/she brings to the table on behalf of his/her clients' best interests.
You will, alas, never convince naysayers by means of argument. Their minds are closed. They are not open to learning anything new other than that which supports their 'dyed-in-the-wool supposed knowledge. These folks are like many lawyers; they just want to win. But then again, good people like you will always do well in this life, no matter what course you pursue.
Don't waste your time too much defending a legitimate position against closed minds; it's not worth your valuable time.
Try to educate only those who have the wisdom and intelligence to actually consider the merits of BOTH sides in a debate, without bias.
Yes, I'm doing OK these days…thanks for asking.
Regards,
Brian.
It’s Time We Set the Expectations Expected of Professionals.
I was very interesting to see the debate created by “Homeowner” who came into this forum and told it like it is…sellers don't care! It was also nice to see industry members challenged like they were, you can’t pull the wool over the eyes of the consumer anymore and it proves that the old scripts of what we do and what it costs simply aren’t resonating with consumers today.
More importantly this debate highlights how fearful and resistant to change most in our industry are. To have a member of the public tell us their position and to have the response he/she did indicates the hostility that exists. We say we’re a consumer driven industry that listens and acts in the best interests of our clients but our actions are very different. There’s an absolute air of entitlement that exists in this industry and anyone acting outside of the norm is automatically a bad guy.
I know, I’ve been in the industry since 2003 working with REMAX as a buyer agent and as an independent agent until starting SellerInvite.com™ in 2008 and I know the dialogue being thrown around is simply that …dialogue. If agents are blowing their precious time on uncommitted clients, wasting time on overpriced homes and unrealistic clients and if they’re sacrificing their family time running whenever the cell phone rings, then they’re doing it wrong and you can't expect the serious and realistic home owners to have to pay for such inefficiencies. It’s time we set the expectations expected of professionals.
And I know what it costs too! The traditional model today, which is really a pyramid… more agents doing less business at a high price to the consumer, is not only being attacked by brokerages offering the same and sometimes better service, call them discount brokerages if you want, but it’s being attacked by brokerages offering discounted fees to industry members. In Edmonton there are brokerages that will charge REALTORS® less than $200 per transaction and no desk fees or splits. Wonder if there giving all the savings back to their sellers and buyers? And let’s be honest guys, the money you spend on marketing homes does little to sell the home and more to market yourselves…is the MLS System® and REALTOR.ca not a good enough medium to market a home or have we been lying all this time?
Thanks for providing us with the voice that matters most Homeowner.
Rod Thompson, Founder
SellerInvite.com™
Ross is right – Realtors do have to get their heads out of the sand, but fighting change is not what is needed. Change will happen whether you like it or not and quite frankly, Realtors will have to adapt or leave the business. One of the reader responses was spot-on, consumers do not care, how many leads a Realtor has to go through to get a client, or how many sales fall through, they don’t care what fees a Realtor has to pay to his franchise or board – all consumers want is their home sold with as little hassle as possible while netting as much money as possible. Realtor's will have to develop models that are attractive to home sellers, that is, offer good service for fair value. They will have to streamline their business and lower their costs. What are some of Realtor's biggest costs? Franchise fees, office fees, local board fees, provincial association & national association fees. If I worked for a real estate franshisor, a real estate board or association – I think I would be looking at ways to lower my costs -because Realtors certainly will be.
The real estate business will survive, Realtors will be around for years to come, but the models they work under will most likely be much different.
From BC to NS REALTORS are speaking up. Get your name added to the petition for ONE MEMBER ONE VOTE at CREA. http://www.rosskay.com/crea-petition.html
All I can say about Ross’s opinion piece and the response it garnered is “Wow.”
Ross Kay was right when he suggested that real estate practitioners need to take their heads out of the sand. Unfortunately, it’s not in the way he meant. Real estate salespeople need to take their heads out of the sand and realize that times have changed, the business has changed and if they don’t – at the very least – accept that they need to change, they will be left behind.
It is interesting that many of the comments came from real estate representatives who have been in the business for 20, 25, 30 years. No big surprise there. No wonder you don’t want things to change – it would mean you would have to re-think the way you do your business and what some of your practices mean.
As an example, you seem perfectly happy to continue charging commission based on a percentage of the sale price of a property. That’s the way it’s always been done, right? You justify the practice by saying the public doesn’t understand how the commission is split and just how little comes down to the salesperson; the public doesn’t understand how much time you spend with buyers who don’t buy, so your time has been wasted; the public doesn’t understand just what your costs are to market a property, whether it sells or not; the public doesn’t understand how much value you add to the whole transaction.
I suggest that it is you who don’t understand … you don’t understand that it’s not up to the public to care about the amount you get paid in the end; it’s not up to the public to care that you have deals that fell through; it’s not up to the public to care how much it costs you to do your business; it’s not up to the public to care how much time you put into their sale. What the public cares about is that you sell their homes and they don’t feel ripped off by what they are paying you. And let’s be honest …paying tens of thousands of dollars on the sale of a house that was on the market for only 3 or 10 or even 20 or 30 days is a rip off. It’s no wonder sellers are looking at doing it themselves or using who you dismissively refer to as “discounters”.
It’s time you started thinking about new, fairer ways to get paid for your services. Three deals fell through so you are making the one that completes pay for your previous failures? You are making the seller pay for the time the selling agent (who is probably not you) spends with the purchaser? You charge the same if the property sells in three days or three months? (And don’t say it was your brilliant marketing skills that made the difference). You charge the same percentage to sell a $200,000 home as you do a $500,000? Why are your services worth more, in dollars, on a $500,000 house than they are on a $200,000 house?
Take your heads out of the sand. It is precisely because the industry refuses to change – refuses to see that the times and the world have changed – that the time was ripe for the Competition Bureau to step in. Like it or not, the changes happening as a result of the Competition Bureau’s actions have made it possible for the public to have more say in how they dispose of their property. Yes, there are many stories about how FSBOs didn’t work out well. Be assured, however, that there are also many stories about how well sellers made out selling on their own or through using a “discounter”. Real estate salespeople are beneficial but they are not essential.
It is time, indeed, to take your head out of the sand.
Such a good write up.
Dinosaur aged realtors: Time to adapt. Competition is rough, isn't it? :)
Hi Home owner, where are these tens of thousands of dollars coming from that you are stating that we earn?? Yes it is true that a 500k home will pay out more commission but not every agent gets a 500k home to list, in fact it is rare,and the ones who do will normally have the contacts in the industry to bring the qualified buyer to the home to complete the sale. DO THE MATH for a 500k home after all the taxes, brokerage fees and expenses are taken off, each agent on a 2.5 split might take home 5k after 1-3 months of work.
YES the public does need to know how our commission is earned otherwise why would someone like yourself complain about our commission. If we do not sell we do not get paid period.
The buyer agents feel this the most, how about you go work with a client for weeks and weeks even months of showing them houses for them to turn around and rent for a yr or buy from a FSBO who wont pay a commission. The agent makes 0! GUESS WHAT IT DOES HAPPEN and AGENTS ACTUALLY LOOSE MONEY Frequently. So yes I do agree that the public has to know our commission structure and how hard we work for sometimes no pay at all. So how about you go to work for free for the next few weeks and tell us how you make out.
If We have such an easy job of making these large sums of money you claim then you are more than welcome to take the course, get licensed, and sell some houses, I bet you will throw in the towel in 2 months. You have no idea how hard we work to earn just a living, to earn the trust, and respect of each of our clients.
For Realtor NS:
You asked why someone like me would complain about your commission – you think it makes a difference how much (or how little) actually trickles down to you. I don’t mean to sound insensitive, but to homeowners like me, it really doesn’t – and shouldn’t – make a difference how it’s split up – the total commission is what I pay and it’s a big chunk of money that comes right off the top of proceeds from the sale of my house. Think about it – if you were my client, would you be concerned about what my expenses are, what my taxes are, what the cost of running my business is, how much time and money I put into courting potential clients who ultimately go elsewhere, and who else I have to pay? Of course not. You concern would be whether you are paying a fair price for the service I offer to you for the length of time you will using that service. If you think it’s too much, you would be looking to take your business elsewhere. It wouldn’t matter to you that I have more expenses than the next guy; what would matter is the bottom line. It’s no different with real estate commissions.
While you may be working in a part of the country where sales may take longer and you spend a good deal of time marketing properties and showing properties, this discussion was generally taking place among real estate agents in southern Ontario, where it is not unusual to see a “for sale” sign go up on Friday and the “sold” sign on Monday. Would it not be reasonable for me as a homeowner to expect that because it took so little time and effort to sell my property that it would cost less in commission than if it took 3 or 4 months to sell in a really bad market? I don’t buy the argument that I should pay the same commission because my salesperson also has three purchasers on the go and he may be wasting his time on two of them, or that a listing he had didn’t sell so he’s out of pocket for the advertising and open houses on that property. It’s not my job or my responsibility to pay for what doesn’t work out for my salesperson. There really hasn’t been a lot of thought put into how real estate agents charge for their services – they just continue along the way it’s always been.
The suggestion that I should becomes licensed and try to do your job so I can see how hard it is, unfortunately, is really beside the point. I’m sure it’s difficult at times. So’s my job. You chose your profession as I chose mine. You chose commissioned sales with all its rewards and pitfalls and I chose a different path with all its rewards and pitfalls. I deal with changes in the marketplace, fluctuating business cycles, new technologies – and, yes, the occasional client for whom I end up working for free – and you will have to deal with those things, too. It’s adapt, change or die these days.
Real Estate sales are like any other sales field. If you work hard you make a decent living. If you work really hard you do better than most. If you sell widgets you get a small percent of a penny on each. If you sell cars you get a much larger amount per item because you don't sell many each month. Most real estate agents sell, on average, one property per month. Every single item you buy has built in (hidden) advertising and promotion costs. The difference here is that it is all out in the open on properties. If agents had to charge less on higher end properties they would have to charge more on lower end ones. Also, the higher end ones often take longer to sell, with more work and expense involved. Agents have high overheads and high stress. They are running their own businesses. You sound as if you are in business, so you should understand that. Did you know that for stress ratings they are categorized with police and air traffic controllers? Also, if they charged less for a property that was on the market only a few days, do you think the owner of the one on the market a long time would want to pay more?? Finally, when someone is good at their job, they make it look easy. If you hire an agent to sell your property, don't complain if they do it quickly. Isn't that what you want? They obviously know what they are doing. Would you like an agent to have it for sale for 5 or 6 months? Bet you wouldn't be very happy. If this job was so easy and a person could make tons of money, why aren't more people doing it? It's a tough job. You can't even imagine it. I spend evenings and weekends at my client's beck and call. My family isn't pleased. I often work til 10 at night then have clients calling me at 8 a.m. I am expected to give up my weekends. I am legally liable for a million details. I have to work with the general public and keep them happy. I have to belong to many organizations and keep current in my field. I always find that the people who don't understand are the ones who complain about how much I get paid.
Home Owner,
The real estate industry is one that is filled with visuals.
The problem with people like you is that you see the first visual, the for sale signs go up and a few days later, the sold sign and you come to the conclusion that the REALTOR made an enorous commission for a few hours in a few days. Or
Maybe you called up a REALTOR who spent a few hours going over the paperwork with you, slapped a sign up and voila, gone in another few days and now you feel slighted.
This market has had a splendid run for the better part of 10 years, homes are sold quickly. But you cannot assume that just because you see properties sold in a few days the REALTOR has done little to nothing to collect a big fat commission – you weren't privy to what transpired before or after the listing.
And if you were the seller who was not astute enough to do your due diligence when seeking out a REALTOR it is entirely your fault for paying a big fat fee for them to do nothing especially when you could have gone to the dollar store buy a sign, stuff it into the yard, spend a few hundred dollars for an ad and get the same result. Yes, no or maybe?
But believe me the property won't sell for a premium in either scenario and it won't sell for months in a buyer's market. But go ahead, hire someone for $200 and if your property isn't the cookie cutter type or comes with history that ought to be known, then good luck to you in court.
I'm at a complete loss to understand why some like you love to bemoan commission fees – you don't like them? Then don't use a REALTOR! No one ties you down and forces your signature onto the paper.
There is much wrong with your submissions here: That a listing rep often doesn't bring the buyer is the best protection a seller can have. Ask a lawyer or judge about that.
That it's not your concern our fees are 'high' because of deals falling through or having spent countless hours with either tire kickers, or unscrupulous people who play REALTORS is valid. I certainly don't care how much you paid for your house before you decide to sell either. But ours is a cost that is built into some fees just as when you buy anything including commission based products and including your job if in fact you do work with clients for free. Yet something tells me you get to collect a salary, and like most office staff, can sit at your desk and play on the net on your employer's dime. And if you think this lack of productivity isn't built into his product price, think again.
That we still charge the same commission rates no matter the list price is another farce laden with false logic and too often parrotted by those who just want to jump on the REALTORS are awful people band wagon. It's almost as nonsensical as saying our rates haven't changed in 20 years. Do you suppose FORD pays its workers less to produce the Focus than the Lincoln? Does its dealerships charge a different price for labour between the two?
Maybe you would prefer REALTORS lower the rate on a $500k home from say 5% to 2% and raise it to 12.5% on one worth $200k.
Now maybe you can share your profession and company type with us for I'm sure you'll get a list of complaints as to why the "public" thinks its a rip off.
To Homeowner:
You are now starting to lose some creditability here. First of all the notion of the for sale sign going up on Friday and going up sold sign on Monday is nearly impossible. If you knew more about the Real Estate process, and were more informed, which you are clearly not you would understand that the purchasers of the said property would have to complete their financing clause, have the home inspected and obtain insurance for one, and no way in any parts of the country can this be done over a Saturday and Sunday, a two day period. So um yeah sorry your logic is not making any sense. A quick sale as you call it would take a minimum of 2-3 weeks for these clauses to firm up for the home to officially sell. And guess who the people are who are working hard to make sure that both parties are taken care of during this period, the agents. And yes the agents do work hard. I just sold a home and I am on the phone during this period on a daily basis and sometimes until 11pm at night. So don't tell me a home will sell in course of a 3 day weekend, because in the Canadian Market, it just does not happen and cannot happen.
Oh my, where to start.
First of all, it was nice to hear a reasoned, articulate response from Jim; it was about time and a nice change from the finger-pointing and whinging I’ve been reading in the responses to this opinion piece. You explained rather than rationalized, and it is appreciated.
I’d like to point out that just because I am not in the real estate industry does not mean I am uninformed, does not mean that I’m ignorant of how things work or should work and certainly does not mean that I shouldn’t comment on the optics – or visuals, as PED put it – evident in the apparently exalted world of real estate.
Just to clarify for Realtor NS – I believe my credibility is intact. I live in the GTA (the area around Toronto, for you non-Ontarioans). For sale signs do go up on Friday and the sold sign does go up on Monday. When there are multiple offers – as there often are – there are no conditions for financing or home inspection; buyers are anxious to secure the property with as clean an offer as they can bring. It is possible, in the Canadian real estate market, to have a sale happen so quickly. I have witnessed it numerous times. It is unlikely that in all those cases the Realtor was jumping the gun and putting up the Sold sign before it should have gone up, but even if that was the case, the optics – there we are using that word again – are that the property sold firm. If that’s the case, perhaps it is Realtors who are providing the bad optics for your industry. Optics suggest that it is possible to sell a home that quickly. Sorry, Realtor NS – maybe it is your that credibility that should be in question.
Bottom line is that you are hearing from a rational, educated member of public, and you don’t seem to hear what I’m saying. So I’ll say it simply. The time for commissions based on the selling price of a home is gone. The time for the seller to pay the commission to the selling agent is gone. The time for thinking about what your services are worth – realistically – and what your time is worth has come. The time to stop bothering the public with your rationalization about how little you see of the commission has come.
I stand by my comment that in this ever-changing, quickly-changing world, you have to change, adapt or die. When you try to hold on to how it used to be, you won’t last. And that’s the reason that so many of you are afraid of what’s happening with the Competition Bureau. The rules are changing, my friends, and you either have to get in the game or be sidelined by your own stubbornness and refusal to even acknowledge that the rules have changed.
I want to first point out that I have been a Realtor for 18 years and have never worked for a "discount brokerage".
I have to say that I welcome the changes I see in our industry. I feel that some of the way we do our business has been in need of a re-vamp.
For example, the idea of hauling Buyers around in my car and spending the time and energy "hoping" that they buy and that they buy through me has ALWAYS bothered me. With the advent of Buyers Agency, now more important than ever since "mere postings" have infiltrated our MLS system with the Selling commission of $1 being offered, this bothersome aspect has been eliminated. It is very easy to explain the reason for a Buyers Agency Agreement now…NO ONE WORKS FOR $1.
I actually like the prospect of a different business model and instead of working like we have in the past "pro-bono" which Lawyers do only on occasion and only if there is the reward of greater earnings if successful…I wouldn't mind charging by the hour and getting paid whether I'm succesful selling the house or not.
I suggest all Realtors list the costs associated with being in the business. List the Licence Fees and the yearly board dues and CREA and E&O and computer fees, office fees, etc etc. List whatever costs you associate with the business, car lease, cel phone etc etc. What you want to come up with is an hourly wage you need to charge to be in this business. Keep in mind that mechanics charge $95-$105 per hour for labour and Home Inspectors are the same.
Now come up with a list of services you offer when listing a home and when you are working with a Buyer. Calculate a time component for each service and there you have it…Open House is 1/2 hour set-up and 1/2 hour tear-down with 2 hours there is 3 hours at $100 per hour – $300…Schedule an appointment is 15 min. charge so $25. I think you'll find that over the course of a listing and selling a home the hourly cost will add up to what we are getting with a commission currently. But keep in mind…this hourly wage will be irregardless of whether you're successful or not selling a property! One of the last Strata Documents I read took a full 8 hours! That's $800! Ka-ching!
Now remember! This is just hourly time charged…there's also the direct costs that the Seller must pay for, like Newspaper ads and such that you'll charge a fee to process…
So there you go Home Owner…That's great if your home sells in 3-4 days after the first showing you'll probably get a break…but if you want to waste my time and list your property for more than it's worth and have it on the market for a full 3-6 months, if you want to place a high dollar ad in some useless magazine – be my guest, you are paying for it.
I love this new system!
Keep in mind that there are other options as well….Us Realtors could yank Realtor.ca from the internet….We could start a union and demand better working conditions and pay – like the construction union and Teachers and Nurses…We could come up with a manual like Mechanics stating how long it takes for this and that and standardize our business…We are 90,000 people strong – ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! What if we all went on strike! Youch!
To Homeowner:
I am done waisting my valuable time which I provide to each any every one of my clients commenting back and forth with you. So here it is you have a choice to use a realtor or not to use one if you think we collect too much commission then don't use us. As per CREA statistics 95% of the homes sold in Canada go through a Real Estate agent, and guess what, that will never change because the informed public choose to use a professional to transact their valuable asset. The commission structure will not change, I am working with clients right now and they see what I go through on a daily basis for each transaction and know I'm worth the value I charge. So again Homeowner we are the trained professionals to sell and trade your Real Estate property and if your not satisfied with the commission we charge then you have the choice to go with a private sale company. Consumers like yourself are given the choice, why do you think 95% of the time they choose us? Because they recognize the value we provide!
To Homeowner et al
http://www.carolyne.com/representation.html
I have put in a lot of time and effort, over a period of years to try to provide some information that may benefit consumers "before" they make a decision how to operate within the real estate realm.
My concern is that you "have a concern," and to quote Tommy Hopkins: "You must have a reason for feeling that way – can you tell us what it is?"
Yes there is a lot of diatribe but it appears to just be venting on both sides: no solutions to nebulous questions. Discussion is good. But this is not discussion that is leading to any good end in sight perhaps.
Please read these articles and speak to the issue of "representation" as, in my humble opinion, it is the root of all real estate dealings.
You either have it or you don't. You either pay for it or you don't. Failing which, you suffer the consequences (at what price?). For those who are prepared to gamble and take chances with likely the largest investment they will ever own, so be it. Why someone would, beats me. But, to each his own. There's room for everyone, and certainly everyone has a right to their opinion.
But like a house or a relationship built on sand or rock – we know the results when storm time arrives, and it always does. How you are "protected" and by whom – of "if" you are protected should be the topic of the day; nothing is to be solved by projectiles being spun through the air, with no particular exactitude aim in mind.
Just my thoughts.
Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com
The sad irony of the Competition Bureau efforts is that it is the licensed Realtor in Canada, not the public that is in most need of protection from its own bureaucracy. Associations have allowed our image and purpose to strain under the increasing weight of the industries climbing membership numbers while many Brokers have gone from primarily being mentors to the Realtor to being landlords whose main focus purpose is increasing the number of fee paying agent recruits indefinitely.
We are well past the point where the numbers of agents per capita in Canada serves the best interests of the public or our industries image, It has long passed the point of being mathematically sustainable yet membership growth will likely remain unchallenged, even encouraged to further climb to more unrealistic levels.
It will crash and burn at some point, that is not pessimism, just math and a little Darwinian logic, but until it does and so long as real estate colleges, our industry associations and Brokerages primary focus is on reaping the spoils of a growing membership and ever increasing fees, they will continue to look the other way for the most part.
The only thing that the average joe public seems to think about when it comes to selling their house is money. Most have NO IDEA what it really takes to sell a house. They ask their friends and family, who also don't know the business as well as we do. They pull information from everywhere (accurate info or not) and make assumptions on everything else. What they do know about is money, so that's what they're going to focus on.
I'll tell a story, then get to my point for this post:
I recently had a client who I had been working with for a few weeks, under a Buyer's Agreement. They (as in I showed it to them) found one that the whole family LOVED. The house was so perfect for this family and it had everything they could ever need and want in a house. We made the offer, got it for a good price and started on the conditions. These people have had some financial issues in the past so I was in contact with their mortgage broker pretty consistently throughout the house hunting process. He actually did a preliminary approval on the house they wanted to buy BEFORE I made the offer, just to be sure. What happened at waiver time shocked me. The day the conditions were due to be fulfilled, the husband had a panic attack about the price of the new house and the mortgage he was about to take on. Up until that point, everyone was comfortable with the mortgage…the couple, the mortgage broker, the lender…but he refused to sign the Notice of Fulfillment and the deal was dead. No more house hunting, nothing. He arbitrarily decided that they were not going to move.
So, I added up the time I spent on this couple…34 hours. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of houses I showed them and I didn't include the time it took me to get to the showings from my home or the gas expenses I incurred. So add in the gas, the membership fees, the coffees I bought people, and all the other miscellaneous out-of-pocket expenses, and this was a very EXPENSIVE waste of time!!
I have a 2 year old son and those jerks took me away from him night after night looking at houses. I'll make that kind of sacrifice if it means I'm making money but when I get used and abused like that…I can't put into words how upset I get thinking about all the story times, good night hugs and kisses, and singing songs before bed that I missed.
Most people work a 35 to 40 hour week and get paid for it. How would you feel if your boss spontaneously decided not to pay you for a week's worth of work? Would you just shrug your shoulders and think that's just the way things happen sometimes, or would you do something about it? For all those people out there who think we get paid mega bucks for an easy job, think about that scenario. This couple asked me to write down the time I had spent on their file and any expenses I incurred because they felt bad about what they did. I sent letter outlining my expenses and the hourly charge for my time and they haven't said a thing to me since. No surprise after what they did. See, it's not about the service in some people's eyes, it's ONLY about the money.
Discount brokerages do have a place in our market because there are people like that couple who don't care about services as long as they can save money. I just don't like the fact that some of them don't follow the guidelines that we have to follow. Let the discount brokerages handle the people who don't care about services and have the opinion that all Realtors are money hungry lazy people. Let the discount brokerages take on the liability of private sellers and people like the couple I was working with. I don't want to, but somebody has to!
As I said before, I'm a newish agent. This particular experience PLUS all this junk about the competition bureau is pushing me very close to hanging up my Realtor hat. I call it junk because the public seems to have been given permission to openly trash our profession because they have been told how terrible we are and that we charge way too much. IMO, the attitudes of some of the people working within the discount business models are fueling the fire. Just have a look at some of the posts here. Just like in the car business, there's a place in the market for the cheap economical cars and a place the market for the luxury vehicles. Just be nice for pete's sake!! Save the fight for negotiating your client's offer and for preventing the MLX from being open to anyone with a computer. You discount people are going to be affected by that too.
So here's another idea to add to the pot…something I want to do but I'm not too sure how to organize and how well it will be received by my peers and potential clients: CHARGE AN HOURLY RATE. Clients would be expected to sign off on expenses and time sheets on a weekly basis. It would work for both listing and buyer sides.
Commission problem solved. It'll be a bit of a pain to keep accurate records, but I'm sure we can all adjust. Most other professions we use charge by the hour…car mechanics, home inspectors, lawyers, contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc. As a specific example, the home inspectors in my area charge (on average) $400 + HST for an inspection on most standard houses. They spend between 3 and 4 hours on the inspection, get their cheque and they're finished. That's $100 per hour IF they spend the whole 4 hours!!! Has anyone had a look at lawyer fees lately? They just bill you for their time, then charge back ALL of their expenses.
I'm sure there's something I've over-looked with this idea though. I would be so happy if the organizations we pay to represent us decide to develop a standardized structure for which we can charge clients for the time we spend and drop the commission completely. I think it would certainly level the playing field and make Realtors more accountable…weeding out the not so good ones from the good ones because nobody would be protected by lucky results.
To S Robbins, et al
http://www.carolyne.com/history.html
Here you will see, although the link is old, it is not "old news" — the articles I wrote for this, my private newspaper at the time, address your comments, I believe.
Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com
Serving Brampton and Burlington
Question: How many people feel like there is transparency with their CREA and Franchise fees?
It seems like this whole industry would be really well served by having WAY more transparency. From the Agents to the big companies to the boards & associations.
It's time to move into this century – accountability and transparency are what's needed if you want to survive, nevermind THRIVE!
We have to go further than pulling our collective heads of of the sand. Its time to get out of the sandbox. The pyramid scheme that we pay to maintain is the source of our problem. Consumers have no idea where all the money goes or that each of us pays $25,000 a year just to maintain our membership. I have to ask, do you know of any other profession that is burdened with that kind of "annual dues"? The pyramid was created to make money at multiple layers and the weight of it is crushing the agent's attempt to be credible at the kitchen table. This business model is broken and it is time to rethink our "organization".
Realtor Costs : Your Costs
http://www.carolyne.com/costs.html
Just sharing . . . some of you have seen this before.
There is a link to an additional article at the top: "Commissions"
Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com
Serving Burlington and Brampton
Thanks for your post. I will check out http://www.carolyne.com/costs.html
On a completely unrelated topic don't forget to check out Neil Sedaka tonight at the CNE. Oh Carol will be one of the songs on his list of songs he will be singing.
CREA Petition at http://www.rosskay.com/crea-petition.html
How can I acknowledge the positive responses and mutual feelings it appears many professional REALTORS share? Over 500 CREA members are clearly reading REM online daily.
If we really want action, we do need a voice. PED brought forward a petition suggestion (along with the same recommendation from many others) so I have posted one on my website.
The only way this will work if we ourselves take action.
The question remains will we keep our heads in the sand or take the next step to protect our own businesses.
I leave that to you.
Ross
Candace, if YOU understood how the industry works you would not say…
"95% of the time the listing agent doesn’t find the buyer for their own listings, why the bleep should a seller pay THOUSANDS of dollars to the listing agent? No reason"
…because this statement illustrates with utmost clarity that you do not even grasp the bare essentials of the process of marketing and selling a home using the services of a REALTOR. Not only is bringing the buyer not the listing agent's primary function today, it would be better if the percentage was 100 and the practice was illegal.
Paul, I have a client who tried in futility for 6 months to sell his house privately in Ontario with a mere posting on MLS before listing with me and successfully selling in the dead of Winter. He moved to Quebec and purchased a FSBO. He has been in and out of court ever since and out of pocket an additional sum in excess of $50,000 on a $400,000 purchase for repairs and remedies to his new property because he did not follow the guidance of a REALTOR.
Fellow REALTOR's – get over the idea that protection of data is our competitive advantage. I agree that its use by non-members and also its pollution by mere posters who generally do not adhere to the law in Ontario that mandates due diligence & care with listing data and material facts (because they often do not even visit the property – and for some reason this requirement is not enforced) should be prohibited and have *nothing* to do with competitiveness. However, our laws and administration (in Canada generally) are filled with examples of convenience defeating anything that is right, true, noble, fair, or logical.
So we must deal with it. And really, it isn't that difficult. Start realizing that the services you provide are your differentiators: Fiduciary Representation, Some Degree of Insurance & Legal Protection, and bona fide MARKETING.
Not to mention simple time & effort expended for your clients. LOTS of it.
Most people who rant objections to the REALTOR model have at the heart of their motive a hatred for or jealousy of the perceived easy money we make. Oddly, none of them choose to take up this line of work to make said easy money and retire early and rich like they surely wish they could. I wonder why that is? What do you bet they will say it's because they would feel bad charging people all this money to do nothing.
RIGHT! There isn't much that would make me laugh more than that reply. So many altruistic people angrily ranting against others who choose to spend their Friday nights running out on family to show properties on a moment's notice.
The fact is, most successful REALTORs continue to work in this business because we love doing something concrete to help people. And the business is fraught with risk and expense, inconvenience and long hours. And we love it. And all of these challenges warrant adequate compensation.
Bruce – citing an example of someone who listed on MLS without a REALTOR and was unsuccessful does not make a case. That happens when REALTORS are used as well, so don't kid yourself. As for your role in selling his place, I'd like to know what, specifically, you did to BRING a buyer to him. As in probably 95% of the cases, nothing other than put it on MLS. Perhaps the seller was greedy and over-priced it. Perhaps the seller DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO MLS INFO TO PROPERLY PRICE HIS HOUSE. Agents will claim that is the "value" they add, but that is merely an attempt to defend your access to information. Give the public full access to MLS data and the "expert advice" of an agent is redundant. The # of hours of work you put into selling his home, Bruce, is probably less than 10, and the commission was probably north of $10,000. I know, because I sell houses too. If you try to justify that by saying the high fees we pay warrant those commissions, then you're not looking at the real issue. Rather, you are justifying passing on an industry's inefficiencies and high costs to a consumer with no choice. Again, think of the high price of gasoline at the pumps.
Hi Paul, thanks for your reply. To clarify the examples I used:
- the failed attempt to sell on MLS on a mere posting was with full access to information through the discount REALTOR who provided the mere posting service. I use the term "service" loosely. Terrible photos, lousy web prescence, inaccurate property information, poor positiioning in the ad copy. You get what you pay for. And you don't get what you don't pay for.
- my gross commission was $4,837.50 – his carrying costs for the months he was unable to sell prior to my listing approached this figure or exceeded it, by my calculations based on some data he provided and a few assumptions
- from the time I first provided consultation to him through to closing (actually, I did more work for him on it after closing as there were a few follow-up items) I worked more than 30 hours directly on his file.
My clients get full value for their money and many have written to me to say just that. I have saved many of them thousands of dollars – others have not necessarily saved dollars, but have found the service to be worth every penny – and often buy me a gift to top it off.
It is a service industry, not a sales industry. For those who understand this, there will always be clients and plenty of opportunity to help them.
There are plenty of REALTORs with little or no business acumen, who do a terrible job whether discount or full fee, and sometimes get results by accident and other times do not. Many are not worth their fee. Trouble is consumers often hire based on all the wrong criteria. But hey, from a legal competitive standpoint, I guess this just proves there is no issue. Consumers have more choice of service for selling their home than they do for buying a loaf of bread.
Don't dare spread your lazy attitude to everyone else Paul.
I personally spend numerous hours and sometimes even over the course of two years advising possible clients when to sell or NOT while providing frequent market evaluations, statistics and economic outlook – all of which consumes my time gratis unless I ink a deal. When the time to buy or sell is evident another 40-80 hours is spent at no cost to thepossible client either preparing the seller or showing properties, discussing strategy, paying for and overseeing staging and creating a marketing strategy including paid for advertising designed solely for the individual seller's benefit. This is all based on built up trust Paul and nothing save these, not even MLS access will create the type of goodwill and team spirit exchanged between client and REALTOR for a long lasting relationship.
This investment of time has never failed me nor failed to have my clients remain loyal but it appears that you practice the circuitous route which in my opinion inevitably leads to one pressuring a comsumer to act now.
Your way as described Paul is not just selfish, it holds no expertise and is also ineffictive in the long run.
And why exactly should anyone who wishes it have access to pricing information contained within the MLS which all REALTORS pay to upkeep? Could it be
By the time my listing hits the MLS it coincides with a mass marketing strategy, the property is priced at market for I will not list for less and you can believe me or not when I tell you that any REALTOR who eliminates the other 5% of an opportunity is not just a fool who does their client a disservice but a fool who knows not how to play the odds in their favour.
The expert advice of a REALTOR will never be redundant! Most buyers and sellers are individuals who ask the simplest of questions because they do not know the answer; ask what is the best response to an offer or counter and will not contact their attorneys because they don't wish to pay hourly fees.
And why exactly should anyone who wishes it have access to data accumulated at the cost of all REALTORS?
Great example Bruce. What also Paul does clearly not understand is the amount of taxes we pay per commission or the commission structure. That 10000 Paul claims that we make actually gets split into half 5k for listing agent and 5k for buying, this 5k is now a gross amount, after taxes taken and brokerage fees, we might see 2500 dollars not discounting the expenses we incurred, most agents will see less due to higher broker fees.
Also lets look at it from the buyers end. How about those agents who work with buyers for nearly a daily basis for weeks at a time showing them houses all for them to change their mind and rent for another year or buy a house from a FSBO seller who won't pay a commission that agent will make 0 even a negative amount considering gas and time they spent. So Paul how about you go to work for free for the next few weeks and let us know how you feel or that we make too much money.
I read an article today about our real estate CEO's not supporting realtors and after reading a few of the comments, it appeared as if the topic was centered around realtors not feeling satisfied with the amount of money they were paying their CEO’s who did not support them. Of course this conversation relates to commission.
Now I know that commission is an important topic, but I believe that this is the wrong topic to be focused on. The key is delivering the promised services and support. Yes, in any business it is important to be paid for what we do. I believe that any business that delivers the promised service should be paid the agreed upon price. This does not relate to realtors only…. it has to do with CEO's, builders, mechanics…. every business…. whomever you hire! They should be there to take responsibility for the job that they have been chosen to perform! Essentially they should support you!
So instead of focusing on the commission, let us focus on the service that is provided. I believe that good service is worth the money that is paid. This is the type of service that I am trying to provide. This is the type of service that I want to provide and if I haven't satisfied you, please feel free to talk to me and tell me how I can make it better. At the end of the day, I want you, the customer, to be happy. I want to provide you with the support you need to get the job done so that you are satisfied with paying me the commission that I charge.
Here are some of the services that I provide!
1. Comparative market analysis. I offer an unbiased opinion of your home’s value. I study your homes area and show you what is for sale and sold in your area. I work with you to establish a price and I am constantly watching the market.
2. List your home on MLX. I list your home not just on realtor.ca but also on MLX. A lot of people don't know that these are two separate entities. MLX is the product that realtors use between themselves and buyers and sellers that they are working with. These are active buyers and sellers who are looking for products not just lookie-lous on realtor.ca. These people are ready willing and able to buy when today!
3. Market your home. I am constantly updating myself on different ways to sell your home. I try to use all of the latest items that buyers and sellers use to buy and sell their home. Of course, I am always open to suggestions and new ideas that you would like to try!
4. Pre-qualify all perspective buyers. Every buyer that I bring to your home is prequalified by a system I have in place or a mortgage broker. I do not just show your house to everyone. I will only bring a client to your home if they are interested in your home, prequalified and ready to buy.
5. Handle all of the documents. I know all of the documents required to buy or sell a home. I have them all on file and I will have them ready for you when the time comes. All of my documents are double checked by you as well as my managing broker in the office to assure accuracy. These documents are serious documents and I don't want anything to go wrong in the process.
6. Provide insurance for if something goes wrong. No real estate transaction is perfect. Often things do go wrong when selling a home. I will be there to support you and offer you my knowledge and support as well as my brokerages. I will stick it through, so that we can hopefully solve the problem before we have to rely on insurance and if in the end that is the only solution…. that is why I have it! I will try everything and anything that I can to resolve the problem!
And these are just some of the services that I provide. I am proud of what I do. I enjoy what I do. So when it comes down to choosing a realtor for you….. Choose a realtor who is going to support you and get the job done quickly and efficiently. Make the choice wisely… It is the same as our CEO’s. http://www.KristianaDixon.com
1) This discussion sure woke me up! I think we all get complacent with the status quo, and yes – we're so wrapped up with our individual business dealings that we miss the big picture. A good reminder, thanks!
2) Who says being a Realtor isn't a profession? I take exception to that. Spoken like a true non-Realtor. Suggest you look up "Profession" in your Oxford!
3) To the above comments about competition vs oldtimers – AND the remark that sellers pay way too much commission…do you work for the CB? I darn well earn my commission when I take on a client; buyer OR seller. Sorry we all can't say the same for ourselves. I guess we're worth what we think we are.
Finally, someone speaks out, and I couldn't agree more. The real lunacy of it is that when something goes wrong (and something no doubt will) the lawyers will have a field-day suing everyone and anyone, and don't think the listing and selling Agents/Brokers won't get dragged into the lawsuit(s). Then those involved will have to spend tens of thousands of their own dollars defending themselves (wether they are liable or not), our errors & ommissions insurance will end up paying out our money (because there will always be money in the fund, and when the fund gets low, all of us will just pay more). So to the Agents who feel they are doing justice to themselves or the rest of us (who will invariabily end up paying) for minimal fees on mere postings…maybe you should think twice about the risk involved, and how many of us are going to have to pay along the way. Sad, but true, there is way too much money paid to those who are supposedly representing us and making decisions that the majority of us do not agree with. Sadder even yet…it's our hard earned money that is being squandered. Maybe it's high time we make these people accountable….the biq question remaining is how are we going to do it???
I've only been in the business for 4 years, so I consider myself to be a fairly new agent. In the short time I've been practicing, I've noticed fees go up for everything…board fees, licensing renewal fees, insurance fees, corporate membership fees, etc. I love what I do and I can't imagine working in any other industry, but I'm questioning if I want to work in this industry as a licensed Realtor. I'm paying $600 per month and I definitely don't think I'm getting my money's worth. I would be further ahead by finding a 9-5 job with a decent salary because I wouldn't be spending a lot of money per month, I wouldn't be traveling all over the place at all hours of the day, I would be home for dinner and off on the week-ends. I also wouldn't have to watch the competition bureau destroy the industry. I consistently ask myself…why do I bother? For now, I bother because I love what I do and those are the unfortunate costs of doing business. If only we could go on strike and refuse to pay our boards.
In my opinion, this is getting to be a privacy issue and a copyright issue. I'll start with the copyright issue. That is OUR information out there! Our listings that we created on behalf of the sellers, then the final sales price which is also our information is something that we choose to share with fellow Realtors in the industry. Since it's OUR information, what rights does the competition bureau have to force us to give up complete control over who gets to see it. If we were all asked to sign something that gives permission for OUR information to become public, nobody would sign it.
It's a privacy issue because as soon as the public has access to the sales information, everyone who knows where anyone lives will know exactly how much they paid for the house. I don't think it's their business to know!! Sure, there are no names on the sold listings but there doesn't have to be when it's neighbours, friends or acquaintances…who know you…who are checking out the values of homes in the neighbourhood. Maybe the contractor who you hired decides to check out the value of your house, and maybe the crazy looking person who showed up to buy the old furniture that you had for sale on kijiji? What are those people going to do with that information? Once it's out there in the hands of potentially irresponsible people, it's out there and we (home owners) loose complete control! I bet that's one little fact that the media has been over-looking, isn't it?
As a home owner, I feel I have the right to privacy on this. If someone has been granted the license by a governing board to have access to this kind of information, then they have been bound by that industry's rules and guidelines so I feel they have earned the privilege of using that information for what it was intended to be used for.
Cheers
The price of a home is already public knowledge. As a home owner who's taxes are calculated on the value of my property I have a right to know how that price is calculated. http://www.mpac.ca/pages_english/property_owners/…
On privacy, the information is not YOURS it is mine as a home seller and just because I hired you and your high priced industry doesn't mean you own my information.
Get your head out of the sand indeed!
To Steve:
The right to know how your property is calculated is not my right to know this. Further, it is not based on your what you paid for it or for that matter its market value today. MPAC does not consider each individual home's value for if they did they would be visiting your property to assess it before you were mailed a tax bill.
But you are correct, the information is yours not ours which is why it is considered private information. Unlike you, we are governed by laws that restrict the use of this information in our hands. In ontario one of them happens to be the Real Estate Business and Brokers Act which specifically states in our regulations:
"A registrant shall not include anything in an advertisement that could reasonably be used to identify a party to the acquisition or disposition of an interest in real estate unless the party has consented in writing."
A registrant shall not include anything in an advertisement that could reasonably be used to identify specific real estate unless the owner of the real estate has consented in writing.
A registrant shall not include anything in an advertisement that could reasonably be used to determine any of the contents of an agreement that deals with the conveyance of an interest in real estate, including any provision of the agreement relating to price, unless the parties to the agreement have consented in writing. "
Perhaps you don't know – the MLS Systems are considered advertisement venues.
Further, privacy laws are construed to mean that anything that could identify someone is considered private information, such is why Google's streetscapes are now forced to obscure faces and license plates.
The price of your home is public knowledge but you as the homeowner, unless you have specific authorization, cannot obtain this information about anyone else's property from Ontario's land registry system's web site.
It is unwise to tell us to get our heads out of the sand when you are clueless as to the laws we must follow. But if you feel so sure about your stance then why don't you provide your address and price you paid in here and give all remonline readers the right to broadcast same on our web sites and via flyers to your neighbours, ex-spouse, employer, to name a few.
Furthermore, it is expressly not protecting the privacy of those who may not have entered into an agreement of purchase and sale for a number of years and whose information unbeknown to them is freely searched via VOWS thanks to the competition bureau.
Steve, the ASKING price is public knowledge but the SALE price is private. There's a big difference. Someone can ASK for a certain price in a neighbourhood, that doesn't mean they got anywhere close tot hat for it.
Municipalities do not use the re-sale value of your home to estimate your taxes. Often (at least in my area) re-sale values are much higher than the city has based the taxes on. Every few years though, the city will look at the re-sale values of properties in the area and they have their own formula for calculating the new taxable value. They also don't often request entry into your home to determine that taxable value, where re-sale value depends a lot on the interior condition of your property.
Call your municipality and get the real information about how they figure out how much tax to charge you.
Trust me, my head is 100% out of the sand.
The petition sounds good. Can you get it started and email to every Realtor in Canada. I'm sure you would have an overwhelming positive response. I've previously assumed that the people who are leading our industry were capable of defending it but it appears not. Perhaps the petition will light a fire so that we no longer roll over and play dead which is what has happened so far.
Via email It will be instantaneously delivered from each registrant to all parties. I've provided their email addresses.
Just copy and paste it into your email, edit it any way you want or create something different then close with your name, title and brokerage then send it off.
It would be good to know how many have sent it as it providesas incentive for others to do the same.
All the posts in here and elsewhere online won't mean a thing unless CREA and TREB receive direct correspondence.
Well said Ross but where do we go from here. If we, as members of these associations do not get together as a group and put a plan together to enforce change, all the talking and complaining in the world will only lead to more of the same.
It's time to take action and let these bureaucrats know that enough is enough and if we dont see significant change they can kiss our dues good bye. Then they themselves will be out of jobs and then they can learn how to say the phrase " would you like fries with that?"
There is strength in numbers and this is the only way we can preserve our industry. Are associations are just too ignorant or complacent to realize what needs to be done.
In order to know where we need to go we need to look back and figure out how we got into this mess and how the decisions that were forced down our throats are the very same decisions that will soon render us obsolete.
I have been Selling Real Estate for over 21 years and realized that there are so many fundamental issues that have brought us to where we are today.
1) I remember a time when buyers had to come to our office to look through sheets of 4×4 inch listings separated by district. Although I'm not suggesting that we go back to this way of doing things I do realize that it was a time when the public truly needed us.
We were the gatekeeper of information and what did we do "we gave it away" for free, can you believe it, we not only gave it away, we did it for FREE by going public with the MLS system. Some of us fought it tooth and nail and no one listened. We were called dinosours, paranoid and people who were afraid of change.
Few of us had the vision to see that if you gave the public your arm they would eventually want the entire body too. It was the writing on the wall for us and it was the beginning of the public realizing that we were no longer needed. "Why couldn't we just keep the MLS system in the hands of licensced Real Estate professionals" that way the Competition Bureau would have left us alone.
2) Crea has 98000 licensed Realtors across Canada. That is 1 out of 337 people including children and retirees that have a Real Estate License in this country. WHY DO WE NEED SO MANY REALTORS???. If you break it down that is one Realtor for every every 85 homes. It makes one think that the only thing CREA truly cares about is Licensing fees and revenues instead of preserving the quality of hard working full time Realtors. I would gladly pay $5000/ yr every Jan 1st to get rid rid of the part timers, floaters and people who park their licenses waiting for the next boom.
Whats next? How about CREA and Mpac get together and issue a Real Estate license with every tax bill. That way every home owner can sell their own home all by themselves right beside "com free" and "property guys" on "OUR" MLS system.
This is a system we created, paid for, pay to keep updated and we gave it away. Who were the ignorant, bureaucratic visionaries who let this happen?
3) The bureaucrats who represented us in front of the Competition Bureau sold us out. We are 98000 strong and if we each put up a $100 to fight the ruling on mere posted listings that would have given us 9.8 million dollars to fight this in court and hire the best lawyers. Why wasnt this avenue taken?
What do we do instead, we cave and let them dictate to us what to do with a program we created. I would have shut it down. Why should I advertise my listing along side of private for sale companies on a system I pay for, or advertise in magazines and news papers that supports mere posting companies.
What about my seller's rights. Doesn't the competition bureau care about them. My Seller's pay for a high level of service and should not have to be placed in the same catagory as a discount agency. If you want Value Villages quality and a discounted rates that offers nothing in return while violating our REEBA 2002 than create your own Value Village MLS system. Stop destroying ours.
4) Where is the education, awarenes and statistics on the failure rate of and law suits resulting from selling privately and why are they not offered to the public. We post RECO rulings against Salespeople all the time on a public website. Why dont we post stories from sellers and buyers getting burned from the private sale transaction.
The NAR in the United states conducts independent studies all the time. where is our government body looking out for our and our clients best interest?
With the amount of money we pay into these boards and associations why cant we come up with a market plan that informs the public that we are actually there to protect them from themselves. What do we do instead. We create the most ridiculous commercial I have ever seen about a Real Estate women in her 60's throwing her buyers on top of furniture by the curb.
Who are these people who come up with these embarrassing commercials. Are they trying to destroy us or help us and why are they not held accountable the same way we are by RECO.
If you truly want change to preserve this industry we need to invite all members and leaders of our board to an open forum that is not governed by a predetermined agenda and find a way out out of this mess once and for all. Enough is enough.
Frank
Well said… where do I sign.
I totally agree! Let's ban together and do something.
Welcome to Competition old timers. Now if only the Competition bureau would force incentives and iducements to be Agent based, not Brokerage, then we would really have true competition instead of this same old same old, boycott discount brokerages, etc etc.. Shame on you all. Comfree now has a list on MLS option. Are you ready to compete? Nope, just don't show their listings right? Yeah, that's the way to conspire.
Time to form a new Real Estate Commission.
Ross, my response to your following comment:
"I ask, how do I, a Realtor, the third generation of my family in this profession, someone who respects our profession and believes it is essential to the financial health of our nation, continue to pay these CEOs over $25,000 a year of my money to assist in the dismantling of my own business?:
Firstly, being a real estate residential salesman is NOT a profession;
Secondly, could it be that all these CEO s you are referring to have come to realize that what needs to be dismantled must be dismantled?
Yes John, I agree with your statement that " being a RE salesman is not a profession". Sadly, I have to concur in todays times. But being in Real Estate SHOULD be a profession, as it was years ago…. when that is the only thing you could do – is sell Real Estate!!! You would not be allowed to have a second job like many of our "Professionals" do now. Subsidizing a Real Estate career by being a waitress, bus driver, engine repair and more…. is not what I call being a professional. Thats like seeing your doctor give legal advice, or worse…becoming a (Horrors) saleman! because he couldn't make it full time as a doctor!! How does that make you feel? How does finding your Real Estate agent selling furniture as a "sideline" make your Seller or Buyer feel?? No wonder no one thinks of Real Estate as a profession! Its just a second job to most of them!
Well said Ross and everyone else who has replied. I believe that our problem as an industry is that we have no leadership. When I got into this business 24 years ago we had Brokers who checked our ads to make sure that they were accurate and within the industry guidelines. My first Broker (who is still in the business and still trying to train new Salespeople) how to do this business properly gave me some invaluable insite….people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care…..is still true today but how many Brokers tell new people this type of advice. As Mayor Rob Ford has said, the Gravy Train IS OVER. We, salespeople at the bottom of the Real Estate Industry cannot keep paying for everything and everybody above us…the public don't know (or care) what it costs us to be in this business and they don't know what it takes to be a caring responsible Real Estate Salesperson burt Siri certainly described very accurately a lot of people that are in Real Estate today. If our Brokers/Owners were doing their job these people would be out of our business. RECO is there to protect the public from us they are not there to protect us that is our Broker's job and that I believe is the only thing that will change our industry. We counsel people is what is for most the largest investment they make in their lifetime and we should be held accountable when we don't perform with their interests first. With fewer sales and much less commission coming in hopefully some of the bad weeds will exit our industry only time will tell. Maybe the death of MLS as we now know it will have to happen to fix our industry. Why should we continue to pay for Boards and Associations when we can put listings on Realtor.ca for free? Thanks Ross for at least getting the dialogue started lets see where it goes from here.
we are licensed for a reason , we get real estate education for a reason , we should fight all out until we win for a legit reason , we have numbers and power and money . if the ceo cant do it , and its to hot to handle get out of the kitchen ! , no other profession is getting bullied !why realtors ? we are in the business ! our business ! when i started real estate we were fighting for 100 % commision , we got it when we won over 30 years ago !. we have come a long way forward we cant go back ! move forward for the betterment of our industry ! a buksh .
Ross, a great commentary. Someone mentioned earlier how so many of us don't use our real name when we leave comments. How confident and committed are we in our profession if we can't leave our real name when we comment publicly?
Our Board held a meeting last year to vote on the CB settlement. Our members voted overwhelmingly against settling, yet somehow at the CREA level, our representatives voted strongly for settlement. I don't understand this whole thing. Why are we rolling over and giving away the farm so easily? Clearly the CB doesn't have a leg to stand on. The MLS® is a system that REALTORS® subscribe to and our fees pay for it. While they have a ridiculously incredible amount of power, they have no legal ground to stand on. They simply have the power to break up alleged monopolys (or near monopolies) at will. There are far larger targets than us (oil industry, cola companies, Ticket sales for events (a total monopoly by one firm)) but we are the public target of choice. We are an easy target for all the reasons Ross mentioned, and they need a public victory. The outcome is a foregone conclusion – unless we stand up and fight.
As for our leaders fighting for us, that won't happen until we force them to. And if we don't force them to, we have nobody to blame but ourselves. We need to stand up and demand they defend us. Hurray for the TREB on their current VOW fight.
So what can we do?
Attend all meetings on the subject and make your voice heard.
If you comment online, have the courage to use your own name.
Stop cutting your commissions out of fear. Decide what you are worth and stand up for that. We are not overpaid. Okay, sure we are somewhat overpaid when a home sells quickly BUT we are also underpaid when it doesn't, and the consumer CAN'T have it both ways. If you want lower commissions then you need to pay me if your home doesn't sell. All the real estate firms offering low listing commissions and $1000 MLS® access are the ones who are deceiving the consumer. They are just taking the easy way out. Statistics show the home won't sell and if it does it will be a nightmare because the consumer is controlling the transaction. Most of these will eventually list.
Stand up and make a list of all the value you bring to a transaction. We did and if you do too, you will be surprised at the list. Do the math. The most motivated buyers willing to pay fair market value always go to REALTORS® because they want a quick, easy AND FAIR experience.
Go online and buy a copy of "Waging War Against Real Estate's Discounters" by Bernice L. Ross. We buy a copy for every one of our new agents.
Regularly prospect the FSBOs. It is only a matter of time before they realize they are being fibbed to by the CommissionFree companies. After 6 months, a ton of hard work, $1200 to the CommissionFree company, $2000 in advertising, etc., they are still not sold. And the ones that do sell will realize they got less for their home than it is worth. The general public will figure this out…but you can help them with your listing presentation.
Ask your Broker what he/she is doing. Ask your Broker what your franchise is doing.
Get a written listing presentation. Include articles like the recent news release about the US founder of a FSBO company using a full service, full commission broker to sell his home.
Don't discriminate. If somebody wants to offer a low-cost competitive model, that is their right and we need to respect their rights. I have friends who have low commission companies. I don't agree with them but I understand they are just doing what they believe in.
But they must respect your rights also. It is totally legal for you to demand a fair wage and if your fee is more than the discount listing pays, you have every legal right to advise your buyer that this is how much you work for and if they want to see that home, somebody needs to pay your your agreed upon amount. Use Buyer's Agency. Get a good WRITTEN Buyer's Agency presentation and use it. You will be amazed how many people will sign buyer's agency if they believe you are good at what you do and you have their interests at heart.
Believe. Just believe. There is a reason REALTORS® perform the vast majority of home sales and have done so for many years. And it is not because we are anti-competitive. We all know just how competitive this industry really is. There is not a more competitive industry on this planet. The reason is because AND THIS IS IMPORTANT, we get the sellers the most money in the least amount of time with the least amount of effort. And we get buyers the best home at the best value with the least amount of effort. WHAT ELSE IS THERE?
Believe people.
Shame on you.
I agree with Gerald wholeheartedly and without reservation. Anything I would say would be a repeat so I just wanted to add that Our business model is one that offers a discount and I appreciate Geralds realistic sentiment that different business models should be respected. We always pay our cooperating brokers and take the discount from our side of the deal. That's playing our part to be respectful to our colleagues. Anyway – thank you Gerald for being fair minded and having the respect for others that we all should have.
I should also say though that part of the problem today has to land squarely on the shoulders of Realtors themselves. Too many Realtors have gone for the "Easy" route and basically given the shop away. This may seem a contradiction when you consider that I work for a discount brokerage so I should explain a little. We have had our business model for 10 years and we give full service and always will. What I'm talking about is listing for a few hundred dollars with zero service to sellers apart from a sign and nothing to cooperating brokers. It is REALTORS that are doing this!!! I believe in competition and as Gerald said, we are in the most competitive industry I know of. What I don't believe in is reducing the decades of ethics, customer service and protection, REBBA and the professionalism which is still displayed by the majority of realtors, down to a hit and run mentality to make a quick buck and not represent clients properly. How the Competition Bureau or anyone else believes that this is in the public's interest is frankly beyond me.
Gerald – realtors are only competitive among themselves. It's akin to saying the oil companies or Canadian banks are very competitive…of COURSE they are, except these are cartels/oligopolies and anti-competitive. Stop quoting redundant and obvious facts like, "we get the sellers the most money in the least amount of time…". ANY industry that is protected from competition can make the same claim. You're merely stating the obvious, which is a RESULT of an anti-competitive industry. You and others mistakenly twist that result to make it appear that this constitutes/justifies our position.
Wake up. Ask yourself this: if it wasn't for hoarding of MLS data and a listing database, would REALTORS still be doing the lion's share of deals? No. Take a look at the prevalence of FSBO in Quebec (60% of the business).
Ross,
Well written article…perhaps you should be with the big guys and straighten things out. I have been a Realtor for more than 25 years and I totally agree with what you have written…they keep charging us more and more (I believe one article I read said our crea fees have doubled in the past 10 years). I like you just keep working and all of a sudden I realize our industry is in one big mess. We have been trained over and over again to put the client first and now with mere postings it goes totally against everything I have been taught, and how after all these years does one not give advice??? Now it seems we have another ridiculous battle to fight…..with ceo's, that only know how to cave and agree to things that are not what our business was built on.
I'm sure you can hear my applause from BC.
Jim Allen I agree with you what can we do to help.
Hi Fellow Realtors & thank you Ross for your article. The answer to what's happening to our industry is all about money. The Boards still get their money for mere postings. The Real Estate Companies still get their money. And we get none. No commissions. When mere postings was officially the sign of times, the FSBO companies, especially the glorified ones, were poised and ready for the new mere postings with links back to their internet sites. In fact, in the first week of the motion being passed by our own Board members who all went back East to vote ( & no one knew ) they posted over 1000 listings from a Real Estate Company that had made a deal with the "glorified FSBO's" for the exclusivity for posting mere postings. Can you imagine! A real estate company working against us. We've been bamboozled & since money is still the motivating factor for allowing mere postings I think it's time to get another job. MLS.ca is an internet site that we Realtors pay for dearly. Can't anybody get is right?
Hey Ross,
An entertaining rant. One that will have a lot of heads nodding in silent agreement and then forgotten by tomorrow. Empathy towards those forces guiding our industry is a mainstay of our profession. As much as your comments may ring true, any expectation of affirmative action is sorely misplaced. In my thirty-one years as a Realtor, the denegration of our collective will has been one of my unfortunate observations. This has been aided by the conversion from the old traditional broker-salesperson format to the age of independant contractors and 100% commisions. All hail the mighty dollar!
HOW Dare someone cut commission (aka competition).. Shame on you.
I agree with Ross regarding the CEO'S not supporting us Realtors by letting these outsiders to attack our industry. In hindsight we must take responsibility in the first place due to agents from the past cuttings commission to get an advantage on other hard working agents…..Where do you think these outsiders came from !
Be strong and fight for your worth.
Terry Butts
I agree with Ross… spineless representation. They are crying the corner hiding from the government hoping this will make them go away. Quality advice needs to stay in the equation. That being said, we have too many floaters in our industry, too many people floating with the tide. It is Realtors who are not dedicated who create an even bigger problem. Sadly, I believe Siri's story because I have taken business countless times from putz Realtors who act like they are entitled to a sale.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the industry completely de-regulated so I don't have to employ a personal lawyer to interpret the rules for me.
Congratulations, Ross. Always in the forefront. Logic – understood. You speak plain old-fashioned English that cannot be misunderstood. Keep up the work; follow the plan; continue to engage your colleagues in this uphill battle of the wills.
If only the public really knew how this industry functions, they would ONLY hire the experts. It's to their own advantage to do so.
Sadly, there are registrants out there who don't make it their business to see the tidal wave that you have alerted them to.
Cordially as always,
Carolyne L http://www.Carolyne.com
Serving Brampton and Burlington
IF the public knew how the industry worked they would never pay full commission. Since 95% of the time the listing agent doesn't find the buyer for their own listings, why the bleep should a seller pay THOUSANDS of dollars to the listing agent? No reason.
Oh Candace…My, my what a dream world you live in….You said "IF the public knew how the industry worked they would never pay full commission"….it doesn't matter what we charge…if it was only 1% the public would still think we charge too much. Those who's business model is to charge "less" are riding on the backs of those who charge "full commission". You can't charge less if no one else charges more. What if all those who charge more, now charge what you charge. You would have to charge less. Then less again when the others lower their fee to compete with you. What if the others all charge less than you. Your fee now becomes that "full commission" you were talking about. You should show a little grattitude instead of ridiculing those who make it possible for you to stay in business. Oh, I forgot, that would be against your business model. Ridiculing others fees is how you stay in business. I don't care what other agents charge but I do care when a Realtor's business model is based on advertising how much less they charge than others instead of just stating what they charge and what they do for what they charge. Those who's business model is based on advertising charging less are playing on people's greed button. They are definetly not doing it because they are trying to help the public.
You also said…"95% of the time the listing agent doesn’t find the buyer for their own listings, why the bleep should a seller pay THOUSANDS of dollars to the listing agent? No reason." Let's see what happens if there is no listing agent. Then there would be no MLS. and No Realtor.ca. and no one looking out for the seller. In the long run, there would be no buyer's agents either because they would be spending too much time evaluating each house they show and then trying to negotiate their fee with the seller in order to show the house to their buyer. Of course the seller would not trustt the buyer's agent so it would be buyer trying to screw seller, seller trying to screw buyer and Realtor struggling to stay in business….Oh wait a minute, that is what it was like before we came along.
Well said Ross. Cudos to you who has had the guts to call it what it really is. We pay, pay, & pay again without questioning anything. Hoping these bozos will come to our defence. One prime example is RECO whom we pay so they can use this money against us. To weed out the bad ones as they say. What are we paying all this money for if they can't protect our industry? Now it's free for all & the biggest question from possible sellers is "HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE" because we are competing against private for sale, who pay no fees. Yes, we are told the cream always rises to the top, but why does the MLS no longer belong to us exclusively. Did we not pay to set it up in the first place, & do we still not pay for it? It boggles the mind what they've done to our system. Can we still be called PROFESSIONALS with all the outside influences?
We're just trying to make a living, against all the adversity.
Realtors should get themselves in gear. We went through 7 realtors who basically didn't hear us. Perhaps because we are of an alternative lifestyle they didn't think we had the coin to purchase even though we had verification from the bank. Whatever it was: 1st realtor approached 3 times to let her know we were looking, another wanted a signed paper we would deal only with him (what? only just met you and am already married, that's the only paper I'm signing), the other said what we wanted was in the 'burbs. Actually, because it is in the 'burbs it is what we don't want. My favorite is the woman who looked like Barbie in the Caddie who was 20 minutes late (we are self employed and our time is our money). When we walked into the property she said, "this is the living room." Really? I didn't know that because I'm wearing a turban…
The realtor who got our business and our referals still 20 years later is Super Mario Charron. He really went to bat for us. One day he came to the neighbourhood in Centretown, parked his car and we walked to our appointments. We would walk in and I'd say, "No." He replied, "Let's take a look. This is the original pine wood floors. The heat is … and will cost … per year. The hydro is knob and tube and will cost …. to upgrade." The man educated us and sold us. Super Mario is aptly named, and we are grateful for his professionalism.
Later 2 of the 6 previous realtors asked us why we didn't buy from them. The woman we asked 3Xs said, "Oh, I didn't know your were serious," and the other didn't realize that he had stopped returning our calls…
Why put on the government what the profession itself is lacking?
One major issue I have with our profession is the relative ease with which one can enter it. It takes 7 years of hard study and many many thousands of dollars to become a lawyer. We can take a 3 month course for about $5k and can earn as much money wrecking peoples' most important transaction. Siri, I can say this. Over the last few years tougher entry requirements have improved this situation, but not enough. Maybe in time.
I have said for years that we need an apprenticeship for all new realtors. When I started i had no choice but to take the training I was offered…..I could not list without going out on a minimum of 3 listing presentations and the same for my first offer. The newer realtors are not getting much training but online and we all know that hands on is best.
In response to “Siri”: Our level of service has nothing to do with the government trying to take away from us that which is ours. We, as Realtors, created the MLS to share information with each other. People would not ask to be privy to information shared amongst lawyers or architects. Why are we different? Also, we go through initial training/exams, constant upgrading, adhere to a code of ethics and professional business practices, have to carry Errors and Omissions Insurance and also have to belong to a host of professional organizations at great expense in order to have access to the MLS, including annual and monthly MLS fees. We also carry a huge overhead. Why should the general public have access to all of this with no effort and for free?
As for choosing a Realtor, I’m sorry you had some bad experiences, but perhaps it would have been best if you had spent a little time interviewing agents to see who would be a good fit for you. Like every profession, there are good, bad, old and new, and everything in between. There are many good agents out there. When you interview an agent, make sure you get a good fit. Ask them about their experience and what areas they work in. Are you just looking for someone to do what you tell them to do? Do you want someone to chauffeur you around to 50 houses? Do you need a lot of attention? Or do you want someone to take charge and get the job done? Make sure your personalities mesh, agree on the amount of contact you need, and also make sure the agent has time to take on a new client. This is a very demanding job. Realtors run their own businesses, and as such, have all the inherent risk, high overhead and very long hours. Most people choose to work for someone else to avoid all of that. I came from the corporate world and in 20 years never had a job that was even close to as demanding and challenging as this one. We are supposed to know everything, and be there at our clients’ whim from 7 a.m. until 10 p.m. Yet no one wants us to get paid. My best clients are those that I’ve worked with extensively, who get to see first hand what it takes to get the job done. I try hard to make sure my clients are aware of everything I do, so that they see the value. Historically however, I don’t think most agents do that. We can serve you better if we know what you need in an agent. Lastly, no agent wants to work with someone who won’t commit. Our time is valuable, and if you are working with more than one agent, you are wasting someone’s time. Find the right fit, and stay with them.
Siri,
It is too bad that you had the experience that you had in the past. Not all Realtors are the same. That is why I always recommend that you choose someone who is right for you. Not all Realtors are the same. It is my goal is to be similar to that last realtor who helped you…. and if I have not met your expectations please tell me what I can do to make your experience better. I love my job, I love what I do and whatever I can do to make your experience better and easier for both of us, let us try it!
That is why I am a Realtor.
Ross, I totally agree and feel the same way. I feel like some action needs to be taken. Sadly we seem to be all (me included) too busy earning a living and serving our clients to do somethiing.
Perhaps we should fire the CEO"s and hire lobbyests.
Great article Ross this is a wake up call to all Realtors. Ross what can we do to make our voices heard?
How about something like this?
To: dsalvatore@crea.ca
maryg@trebnet.com
mail@richardsilver.com
A PETITION
I ……., being registered to trade in real estate and a member in good standing of the Canadian Real Estate Association hereby make the following petition and call upon you to take whatever action is necessary to defend the real estate industry against the Competition Bureau’s lawsuit against the Toronto Real Estate Board.
The Competition Bureau has twice in the last three years brought frivolous lawsuits against our industry and we watched without an individual vote as a handful of CREA delegates voted to allow private sale postings on the MLS® Systems. This suit was evidently a de-facto action made by the Competition Bureau as a result of one member’s complaint who saw an opportunity to exploit a system paid for and maintained by all members and who solicited this change under the premise of offering the consumer a free to a drastically reduced fee listing alternative. It is arguable that the true intent was to attract the private seller then convert them to an increased fee structure(*). In addition the very integrity of the data contained within the MLS® Systems and on which all members and the consumer depend, is being eroded in its efficacy by those who since flaunt the requirement to verify such information by allowing the private seller to provide unverified listing details.
At the April 2, 2011 AGM, CREA voted to approve a data distribution facility that would provide a direct real time feed of all listings to brokerages and third parties such as Zillow. The feed requires mandatory participation at board level. Third party organizations are not registered to trade in real estate and derive their income from advertisement, but through their sheer size and capital which most brokerages and REALTORS® cannot match, they can and have effectively caused members whose listings will be fed through their site to pay for advertising that which is already theirs. There is something definitively wrong when an unlicensed third party is given the right to raise revenue on listings they do not own and charge the brokerage/REATOR® to advertising and compete for their own business. If this in itself it is not anti-competitive, then why must the industry owned advertising system be made to share with everyone who demands it?
The Competition Bureau’s latest lawsuit against TREB demands that all registered members who would wish to create a VOW, may provide to any online consumer anywhere on the globe all information current and archived within TREB’s system. Once again this lawsuit is made with reference to the very same de-facto party as with the CREA suit. This action has no regard for the personal information contained within these listings, none for the protection of private information as required by PIPEDA, REBBA 2002, and Ontario’s own Land Registry system and totally disregards the CB’s own cautions (as Chair of the Fraud Protection Forum) to consumers about their protection of information. Releasing this information places at risk not just a client’s private information but also that of every home owner whether they last purchased their home 30 years ago or yesterday. Our industry must not be coy, vague and definitely not silent when it comes to advising home owners everywhere of these facts.
Again brokerages and REALTORS® are being asked to open the system we have built and own even further and to anyone who just needs to become registered so that they may create a VOW in order to derive their revenues from third party advertisement including FSBO firms. This too on the backs of all who contribute this information and pay for the upkeep of the systems.
The final dismantling of the MLS® Systems can only be when the Competition Bureau proclaims we are being anti-competitive for not allowing the consumer to use it as they might Craigslist or Kijiji so, this must end now!
*sources: 1) Toronto Star Oct. 27,2010 by Tony Wong: “This will be a game changer,” claims Lawrence Dale, founder of Toronto based Realtysellers Real Estate Inc. “There are no gimmicks. There are no extra fees. Free is free…” “With more traffic on his website, Dale eventually hopes to bring clients to his other services, which include a 0.5 per cent listing fee for full-service representation.”
2) Remonline Nov. 10,2010: “As for offering to post listings on MLS for free, Dale says he isn’t doing this for charity. “If they do require the services of an agent, or a brokerage to help them – if they decide ‘this isn’t for me, I want to get some help’ – our hope is that they will retain us on our half a point program, where we’ll do everything for you,” he says. “Most sellers are looking to buy as well – again, I’m in front of you and want the opportunity that, if you want to buy, you’ll use us.”
3) http://www.realtysellers.com: “Initially Realtysellers will manage and provide the brokerage services for the PropertyGuys.com Mere Posting Program and streamline how PropertyGuys.com customers place their property posting on REALTOR.ca. Going forward, the partnership will have a unique platform for offering a comprehensive suite of low cost and integrated brokerage and non-brokerage services and options to consumers.
While financial terms of the arrangement remained confidential, Leblanc and Dale did confirm that Dale’s group, which includes Toronto businessman Mark Litwin, has become part of the ownership group of PropertyGuys.com and that Dale has become a Director of PropertyGuys.com.”
Well said Ross our industry has been attacked by cheap irresponsible people looking for a quick fix deal for years I always say "If you cant afford to sell your house you cant afford to own your house", We don't see the financial sector being attacked like this, or how about the Law society and the corrupt ways they run a show?
I am tired of paying fees to the Real Estate boards and CREA and OREA for absolutely nothing just so they can hire an extra accountant to sit on their fat behinds in an office and collect a pension at my expense. Up until this year I have not seen one advertisement promoting the use of a Realtor in my board and their marketing is still pathetic what are we paying for?!!!
Thank you, well said. After 22 years of paying into this system, supporting the boards and their beurocrats, it is shocking to see the mess we have been allowed to sink into. Our MLS system has been compromised, not to mention the great pottential risk to the consumer. None of the realtors I know like what is happening. I am tired of working hard only to be undermined like this, basically cheated by the associations we support that are supposed to protect us. I will be happy to sign a pettition as I'm sure most other realtor would be eager to as well. We need to act. What has happened is shameful. We were sold out by the same people we pay to uphold us. Can we fire them? We are paying them, why not just fire them?